HULK VS SUPERMAN
THE DEFINITIVE WRITE UP ON THE ULTIMATE DREAM SLUGFEST!
By
John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino
A few of you may challenge that statement. But there can be no denying that these two Super-Heavyweights have the ability to bring out the absolute best in their opposition. Most importantly, they have captured the imaginations of the readers and mass-media on a level that all their contenders (and pretenders) cannot seem to match. Yes, fanboys, whether you like them or not, they deserve your respect.
Need some examples? What two names generate the most interest in comic book battles? What two names come up more than any other in fantasy match ups on message boards? What two names do we constantly compare other characters to just to see how powerful they are? And what two names are ALWAYS in the main-event, despite everything else that's going on in the story? The answers are always the same... The Incredible Hulk and Superman, The Man of Steel!
I'm sure the most militant of haters will still have their doubts, so let me give them one more example. When Marvel and DC Comics got together and had their DC Versus Marvel mega-event back in 1995, it got a lot of national exposure. It was so huge in scope that it included every famous character from both comic companies. What match up do you think was the biggest and most talked about fight of the whole affair -- "Hulk vs Superman!" Why? Simply put, this was the match up that would generate the most interest on a world-wide scale. The Hulk and Superman were the biggest of the big and the baddest of the bad of Marvel and DC and everyone knew it. Readers from both comic companies and even the mass-media couldn't help but constantly wonder what would happen if these two legendary characters slugged it out in a showdown for the ages. It's a thunder-clap that's almost bigger than the actual comic books themselves! KRACKA-BBBOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!
WHEN DC AND MARVEL GET TOGETHER...
In 1971, Mego Corporation picked up where Ideal and Captain Action had left off and started producing their 8" World Greatest Super-Heroes action figures and acquiring the rights to both Marvel and DC characters. For a short time, Mego had both comic companies characters on their packaging together. That lasted until mid 1974 when both companies demanded that their individual heroes be displayed on separate packaging.
By mid 1973, both Marvel and DC started giving their character licenses to more manufacturing companies than ever. Never before was there so many different products with the likenesses of their characters in stores all over the world. For the next few years, toy, sticker, game, clothing, etc. companies were able to manufacture their products using characters from either DC or Marvel just as long as they weren't together on the same package. Here are a few examples of this:
During the late 70s Marvel and DC both co-owned the trademark to the name "Super Heroes" (without the hyphen). That's right, both companies realized the amount of money that the mark "superhero" was worth. Therefore, they decided to trademark the word. However, both companies understood that they wouldn't have a chance by themselves, as both companies were using the term. A battle between the two would likely result in neither of them being granted a trademark. So, they decided to instead work together against any other company out there trying to use the term, and file for a trademark together.
Seeing the "Super Heroes" logo on both Marvel and DC individual products was very common, especially during the late 70s until the mid 80s. Surprisingly, every now and then all the characters from both comic companies would appear on the same product with the "Super Heroes" logo in the forefront of the item (and sometimes not). This happened on a few rare occasions and I'm sure it didn't go over well with either comic company. But you better believe that the kids absolutely loved it (I know I did back in the day)!!! Here are a few examples of those items:
THE END??
While "Hulk vs Superman" will be debated on and argued about until the end of time, I was asked by many of you readers to try and find an unbiased answer to this match up. While this is no easy task and will most likely upset many of you lovable fanboys, I will give it my best shot. Now before I go into the actual issues and break down their fights and then wrap it all up, I wanted to add some creators with authority in the industry to showcase their views on this match up.
By
John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino
I have to admit, these "Definitive Write Up" articles have been doing very well for me. The amount of interest and responses I get from them is pretty impressive. Most feedback I receive is positive and appreciative. But hey, I'm no fool. I know I can't please everybody, especially those pesky and passionate fanboys. Most of them will argue until doomsday to support their favorite characters, even if the comic books themselves contradict what they want to see and read. While I'm a big fan of comics and its history myself, I'm proud of the fact that I can write from an unbiased perspective to honor some of these famous fights and hopefully give justice to the creators and characters as well. To me, there's no other way to write this stuff. And from the amount of positive fan-mail I get, I think I'm on the right track so thank you.
While I base these write ups on popular rivalries, I usually analyze the ones that are the most requested. And since I started taking requests from the regular readers, none has been more requested or in more demand than a write up on "Hulk vs Superman!" It seems to be the ultimate match up for a "dream" slugfest. I think it's because both of these characters have an almost mythical reputation within their comic universes and are widely considered the Super-Heavyweight Champions of their respected comic book publishers -- Marvel and DC Comics and are advertised as such.
 |
| The Hulk is the reigning Super-Heavyweight Champion of the Marvel Universe! Nobody has had more "epic" battles and city-leveling slugfests than this rampaging brute. He was Marvel's very first and most dangerous team-buster and remains the absolute standard all the other characters are measured by. "HULK SMASH!!!" |
 |
| Superman is easily recognized as the "top dog" of the DC Universe. With such a wide variety of super-powers at his disposal, there are not many heroes (or villains) capable of going one-on-one with him for long. He is so revered by others that he is considered the ultimate inspiration of what a superhero is. "This looks like a job for... SUPERMAN!" |
A few of you may challenge that statement. But there can be no denying that these two Super-Heavyweights have the ability to bring out the absolute best in their opposition. Most importantly, they have captured the imaginations of the readers and mass-media on a level that all their contenders (and pretenders) cannot seem to match. Yes, fanboys, whether you like them or not, they deserve your respect.
Need some examples? What two names generate the most interest in comic book battles? What two names come up more than any other in fantasy match ups on message boards? What two names do we constantly compare other characters to just to see how powerful they are? And what two names are ALWAYS in the main-event, despite everything else that's going on in the story? The answers are always the same... The Incredible Hulk and Superman, The Man of Steel!
I'm sure the most militant of haters will still have their doubts, so let me give them one more example. When Marvel and DC Comics got together and had their DC Versus Marvel mega-event back in 1995, it got a lot of national exposure. It was so huge in scope that it included every famous character from both comic companies. What match up do you think was the biggest and most talked about fight of the whole affair -- "Hulk vs Superman!" Why? Simply put, this was the match up that would generate the most interest on a world-wide scale. The Hulk and Superman were the biggest of the big and the baddest of the bad of Marvel and DC and everyone knew it. Readers from both comic companies and even the mass-media couldn't help but constantly wonder what would happen if these two legendary characters slugged it out in a showdown for the ages. It's a thunder-clap that's almost bigger than the actual comic books themselves! KRACKA-BBBOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!
Superman is the preeminent icon of the comic book world. With such a vast array of extraordinary super-powers at his disposal, he can do almost anything. Although he is all-powerful, his greatest strength is his spirit and unyielding dedication to protect the people of the world. His aura of influence and self-sacrifice is so legendary that he is widely considered the greatest superhero that has ever existed in this or ANY universe.
The Hulk is a raging-mad, tireless, engine of mass-destruction that grows more powerful exponentially in geometric proportion to his virtually limitless well of anger. He is considered the most dangerous being on the planet who's physical strength has become the standard of the greatest comic book characters.
It truly is a match made in comic book heaven!!
The Hulk is a raging-mad, tireless, engine of mass-destruction that grows more powerful exponentially in geometric proportion to his virtually limitless well of anger. He is considered the most dangerous being on the planet who's physical strength has become the standard of the greatest comic book characters.
It truly is a match made in comic book heaven!!
 |
| "Hulk vs Superman" is one of the greatest fights ever between two comic book characters. |
So here at your request, I present to you for the first time ever, The Definitive Write Up on Marvel's Green-Skinned Goliath... The Ever-Incredible Hulk vs DC's Icon and Champion of Truth, Justice and the American Way... Superman!!! And be ready for a few surprises along the way before this article is through because sometimes inter-company comic crossovers are a lot more interesting than just two characters slugging it out. Yes, my friends, you demanded this major slugfest write up, so I'm giving it to you with a whole lot more. Enjoy fanboys, because this one is as big as it gets!
Enough with the background, let's get to the combatants...
TALE OF THE TAPE
Name: Hulk
Height: 5’9 ½” (Banner), 7’ (Hulk)
Weight: 128lbs (Banner), 1,040lbs (Hulk)
Real Name: Robert Bruce Banner
Origins: Gamma bomb explosion at Desert Base New Mexico
Home Base: Earth
Nicknames: Green Goliath, Green-Skinned Goliath, Jade Jaws, Annihilator, Captain Universe, Joe Fixit, Mr. Fixit, Mechano, Green Scar, Jade Giant, The Jolly Green Giant, Green King, Holku, Green One, Eye of Rage, Eye of Anger, Harkanon, Haarg, Once-Savage, Two Minds, Professor, War, Maestro, Two-Hands, Greenskin, Gray Goliath, Mighty Bob, Anti-Hulk, Friday, Green Golem, Golem, Man-Monster, World-Breaker, Sakaarson, Nul: Breaker of Worlds, Doc Green, The Most Powerful Being on Earth, The Strongest One There Is
Powers: Possesses
the potential for near-limitless levels of vast superhuman strength
ranging beyond the limits of virtually any other known humanoid being,
depending directly on his emotional state, particularly his anger. He is
extremely resistant to physical damage, psychic assaults, temperature
extremes, and is completely immune to disease and poisons. He has an adapt gland that enables him to breathe underwater,
survive unprotected in space, and when injured, possesses superhuman
healing, enabling him to regenerate body tissue (including internal
organs) within minutes to seconds. His aging is also slowed, or may have
ceased altogether, due to these regenerative properties of his gamma
ray irradiated cells. His powerful legs allow him to cover 3 miles
in a single bound, but he has been known to leap into lower Earth orbit
or even across continents when angry. Besides great strength, his
durability, healing, endurance, and possibly speed, likewise also
increase in relation to his anger levels. He can maintain this peak
output for hours on end and still continue to grow even more powerful as
his adrenaline levels continue to increase with no apparent limit.
Unrelated to his physical abilities, he can see astral (spirit) forms
normally invisible to the naked eye and can locate his place of birth;
Desert Base New Mexico no matter where he is in the world via psychic
bond. As Bruce Banner, he is considered one of the greatest minds on
Earth. He is the foremost expert on Gamma Radiation and has developed
expertise in the fields of Biology, Chemistry, Engineering, Physiology,
and has a PhD in Nuclear Physics.
Favorite Expressions: “Hulk Smash!”, “Hulk is the Strongest One There is!”, "BAH!", “Nothing Can Stop Hulk!”, "The Madder Hulk gets, the Stronger Hulk gets!", “Don’t make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I’m angry.”
Incarnations: I listed the “Savage” Hulk’s classic stats up above because it is generally considered that this Hulk persona is the most popular and most powerful of all the incarnations. But his height, weight and powers varies to a degree depending on his current incarnation. Within each “Hulk vs Superman” comic description listed in the sections below, I included which incarnation of the Hulk was present for that fight.
*Please note that all incarnations listed are only "real" Hulk incarnations with Bruce Banner. No alternate future or pseudo-Hulk incarnations are included.
*Please note that all incarnations listed are only "real" Hulk incarnations with Bruce Banner. No alternate future or pseudo-Hulk incarnations are included.
Name: Superman
Height: 6’3”
Weight: 225lbs
Real Name: Kal-El, adopted as Clark Joseph Kent
Origins: Comes from the planet Krypton. Gained powers from Earth’s lighter gravity and yellow sun.
Home Base: Metropolis
Nicknames: Man of Steel, Man of Tomorrow, Man of Might, Action Ace, the Kryptonian, Big Red S, Big Blue, The Greatest Hero of Any Age, Champion of Truth, Justice and the American Way
Powers: Superman possesses
extraordinary superhuman powers. His body acts as a living solar battery
that absorbs yellow-sun rays, with these rays he is
granted; super-strength, super-invulnerability and super-endurance;
making him one of the physically strongest and most durable characters
in the DC Universe. He also possesses super-speeds; allowing him to move, react, run, and fly at speeds of nearly a hundred miles per hour to
speeds far greater than the speed of light. Super-breath; ability
to inhale and exhale huge volumes of air with great force, capable of
extinguishing large fires and moving heavy objects such as cars. This also
allows Superman to hold his breath for hours in airless environments.
The release (exhalation) of highly compressed air through his pursed
lips causes it to drop radically in temperature. This is usually
referred to as "Freeze Breath", and can cool objects to sub-zero temperatures and freeze air moisture solid. Super-senses (including hearing, smelling, tasting, touching); his
sight is the most well-rounded of his senses as he has greater accuracy
to detail than humanly possible. This sense also includes the ability
to see EM frequencies invisible to humans, such as radio transmissions, infrared light, the bio-electric aura which surrounds all living things, even in pitch-black darkness. Offshoots of this power include Telescopic Vision; which allows him to "zoom in" on far away objects, sometimes hundreds of miles away. Microscopic Vision; which allows him to zoom in on objects that would normally be too small to see, like those on a cellular or molecular level. X-Ray Vision; the ability to see through solid objects, usually with the exception of lead. Heat Vision; ability
to emit solar energy from his eyes. Usually resembles bright red or
orange laser-like beams, which may be invisible at low temperatures but
extremely bright at high ones. The effective range of his beams are
hundreds of feet. In addition varying the beam width, height, and
intensity, Superman has demonstrated a high degree of skill and accuracy
in manipulating his beam. He is able to use this power with surgical
precision and at microscopic levels. In some cases, these beams
can also be used to produce great concussive force rather than heat and
have been known to rupture steel plates and pulverize rock. He
also possesses regeneration (when absorbing yellow sun rays into his
body) and longevity as well as having a super-mind and memory.
Weaknesses: Kryptonite; Superman is most vulnerable to green Kryptonite, mineral debris from Krypton transformed into radioactive material by the forces that destroyed the planet. Exposure to green Kryptonite radiation nullifies Superman's powers and immobilizes him with pain and nausea; prolonged exposure will eventually kill him. The only substance on Earth that can protect him from Kryptonite is lead, which blocks the radiation. Lead is also the only known substance that Superman cannot see through with his X-Ray Vision. He is also vulnerable to most forms of magic, red-sun rays (which weaken him considerably), and just about anything from Krypton
Favorite Expressions: “ Great Krypton!”, ” Great Scott!”, ” Up, Up and Away!”, “This looks like a job for Superman!”
THE SLUGFESTS
The comics listed in this section are each time the Hulk and Superman have squared off, had words and fought each other. I will also explain each encounter in detail. Unfortunately, all fights
and situations are not always so clear cut and I've tried my very best
to be fair, objective and unbiased about the outcome of each battle. A "MATCH UP" is considered a round within a fight or face off confrontation. Since situations can be erratic in the story, there can be multiple outcomes between opponents in a fight. I will continually list each "MATCH UP" with a result and tally it. A "MATCH UP" will only result in a "WIN" if the losing character is
rendered unconscious, teleported away against their will or immobilized
in such a fashion that they are only freed by the other combatant or an
ally. There may even be cases when a character gets a victory due
to interference of their teammates, partners, etc. This may not be a
definitive "WIN" but it will still be tallied against the losing
opponent and explained so. When a character gets an "EDGE" result, they
had the advantage at the end of the fight but the opponent may still
be conscious or fighting on, so it will not be tallied against him. A "DRAW" result means no one was victorious during that encounter. A "NONE" result means there was no way a logical result could be given in that
confrontation or situation from the two characters facing off and this can occur for a number of reasons and will be explained in the
text. And finally, an "UNKNOWN" result means the ending of the fight was never shown so a definitive result cannot be given. At
the end, I tallied up the totals so you can come to your own
conclusions and be the judge to see who holds the overall edge in this
legendary battle.
 |
| (back cover) SUPERMAN AND SPIDER-MAN: MARVEL TREASURY #28 (1981)
Inside an elaborate base of the Latverian monarch Doctor Doom, he begins his operation on a years-long plot of his known as "Project Omega." Doom initiates Omega by luring the "Savage" Hulk to Superman's hometown of Metropolis by way of a special micro-transmitter. Spider-Man's alter-ego of Peter Parker is assigned by The Daily Bugle to cover the Hulk's advance towards the city. Parker arrives in Metropolis just in time to witness the very first confrontation between Superman and the Hulk. While the brute is driven into a frenzy by the micro-transmitter, he attacks the Man of Steel. As Superman hurls the Hulk off of him, the brute then plays possum as Supes digs him out of the rubble to see if he is hurt. This proves to be his undoing as the Hulk lands a brutal haymaker that sends the Man of Steel rocketing into the sky and miles across the Metropolis River. RESULT: WIN HULK (While Superman was taken by surprise by the Hulk's attack, he did let his guard down and the brute took full advantage of the opportunity. It is not known how much the punch actually effected the Man of Steel as the narration states his body was "limp" when he crashed back down onto the concrete. I guess it's up to the reader to determine if Superman was knocked out, stunned or even in shock... either way, it took a while before Supes returned back to the fray.)
TALLY: MATCH UPS: 1 HULK: 1 - SUPERMAN: 0
Peter changes into Spider-Man, but is outclassed and unable to really help out. Now the Hulk goes even more berserk from the micro-transmitter and smashes the ground shaking the entire city of Metropolis. Superman returns and is quite annoyed with the brute. He tells Spidey to step aside because this is a job for Superman! Now standing ready for the Hulk's assault, Superman absorbs the impact of his blows without budging hoping that the Hulk will eventually wear himself out. Bad idea. Over and over the Hulk pounds away with his strength and power increasing with each passing second, but still the Man of Steel holds strong and does not flinch. Just at that moment, Supes discovers the transmitter and quickly destroys it, calming the Hulk down and winning his trust. The Hulk then reverts back to Bruce Banner and the fighting ends. RESULT: DRAW
TALLY: MATCH UPS: 2 HULK: 1 - SUPERMAN: 0
|
MARVEL VERSUS DC #3 (1996)
While the DC Versus Marvel event had a great way to incorporate fans into the fun with a fan-ballot resulting in the outcomes of some major superhero scuffles, it did cause quite a bit of head-scratching controversies. For instance, there was no way the most popular of heroes were going to lose--no matter who they were fighting. Ballots were sent out with the first issue of the miniseries. These had to be mailed in. Fans could also vote on an America Online page dedicated to the event. Superman, Batman, Spider-man (most people didn't even realize that this was a clone named Ben Reilly and not the real Spidey), Wolverine and Storm, all of whom were the most popular characters at the time defeated their opponents by a wide margin.
In the main-event of the entire affair was "Hulk vs Superman", but there was more going on behind the scenes than just Superman being more popular than the Hulk. The "Professor" Hulk at this time was a pale-imitation of himself as he didn't posses his anger-increasing powers. The madder this Hulk got, the weaker he got as his rage would turn him into a "Savage" Bruce Banner. Peter David, who wrote this issue and was the current Hulk-scribe was told not to include this information in the story because it would confuse the readers. The bottom line was that fans wanted to see a "full-powered" Hulk facing off against a "full-powered" Superman, even if that wasn't the case. So did that influence the ultimate outcome of this fight? I highly doubt it. Superman is possibly the most popular superhero ever created so no one was going to defeat him, especially if readers (and "fly by night" fans) had a hand in the outcome of this match up. Whether the Hulk was up to "full-power" or not, he was going down.
 |
| Superman and the "Professor" Hulk background and stats listed in the DC Versus MARVEL preview issue (1995). You will notice that the Hulk doesn't have listed his anger-increasing ability in the "Superhuman Powers" section. During this time, the Hulk couldn't get madder and stronger, writer Peter David was told not to add this information into the overall story to confuse readers and cheapen the entire "Hulk vs Superman" match up experience. |
When two all-powerful cosmic entities known as the Brothers (the embodiment's of both the Marvel and DC multiverses) remembered each other's existence, they pitted combatants from their respective realities together. The winner would then destroy the loser (and its own respective multiverse). Superman and the "Professor" Hulk were the predictable main-event of the entire affair and are both teleported to the desert to match up. First, together they easily take out the villain Metallo before they lock horns. In an intense back and forth brawl, Superman takes the victory by knocking the Hulk out-cold with a thunderous punch. RESULT: WIN SUPERMAN
TALLY: MATCH UPS: 3 HULK: 1 - SUPERMAN: 1
DC VERSUS MARVEL #4 (1996)
After all the superhero battles ended, the heroes all join forces together and battle it out with random villains from the Marvel and DC Universe. While the "Professor" Hulk is fighting the Mole Man and his subterranean underlings, Superman enters the fray. It almost looks like the fans are going to see a round 2 to the main-event when the Hulk confronts him, but the two heroes give props to the other and then team up to make short work of the Mole Man and his gang. RESULT: NONE
TALLY: MATCH UPS: 4 HULK: 1 - SUPERMAN: 1
THE INCREDIBLE HULK VS SUPERMAN (1999)
Bruce Banner is in his secret bunker when a nightmare triggers his change into the "Gravage" Hulk. Unable to stop the enraged brute, Rick Jones stands helpless as Jade Jaws bounds off to a nearby barbecue where he seizes the food, terrifying the crowd. Meanwhile, Clark Kent is interviewing a scientist who has invented a new type of seismograph when the device suddenly registers a series of small tremors. Clark dashes off to investigate… as Superman. Big Blue heads to the barbecue where he confronts the brute. The Hulk quickly lashes out on the Man of Steel and sends him crashing through a convenience store. Impressed with the strength of the brute, Supes begins to "lay down the law" as he tackles the Hulk and tries to hold him. But the Hulk rages and breaks free from Superman's grip sending him into deep space! When Superman finally returns back to Earth, the Hulk is long gone. RESULT: EDGE HULK (The Hulk didn't get the "win" in this fight because while he did overpower Superman and send him into deep space, Supes was uninjured and quickly returned back to Earth.)
TALLY: MATCH UPS: 5 HULK: 1 - SUPERMAN: 1
At Gamma Base, Lex Luthor is touring the labs, flirting with Betty Ross and gathering information on the Hulk so that he can use Jade Jaws as a weapon against Superman. The next day, Lois Lane gives Betty a lift in her car while warning her about Luthor’s shady reputation; suddenly the Hulk appears in the road, wrecks the car and carries off Betty. Clark Kent is interviewing Bruce Banner when word comes in about the Hulk. Clark races off to change into Superman while a stunned Bruce has Rick Jones drive him to the scene. The stress of worry causes Bruce to change into the Hulk and the brute leaps off to find his robot double, created by Luthor to lure him into a trap. The Hulk smashes the enemy robot to pieces so that when Superman arrives, he sees only the real Hulk standing over Betty. Supes rams into the Hulk at full-speed sending the brute crashing through a bunch of mesa-rock in the distance before Betty is able to tell him about the robot. When Supes sees the error of his ways, he goes to try and make peace with the brute. No such luck. The Green Goliath starts attacking Big Blue and a tremendous back and forth punch up ensues, while the Army fires on both of them. Eventually, Superman unleashes a huge haymaker that sends the Hulk crashing into the mountainside. Never unleashing his full-strength on an opponent like this before, Supes goes to see if the Hulk is hurt. But the brute brakes free from the rock and attacks again with ever-increasing strength! Just then Luthor advises General Ross to use the gamma gun against the two super-powered antagonists, trapping them in its deadly rays. When the Hulk tells Superman that the gamma weapon is dangerous, the two form an uneasy truce to shut it down. Supes is able to hurl the Hulk out of the radioactive aura and he bursts into the base and smashes the weapon to bits. As the personnel flee the building, Superman seizes Luthor. Just then the entire lab goes up in a blinding holocaust, and the Hulk is nowhere to be seen. Rick later finds Bruce safe and sound, while Supes reveals to Lois the truth about the robot. Luthor denies all knowledge, and Betty tells her father it was the Hulk who saved her. RESULT: DRAW
TALLY: MATCH UPS: 6 HULK: 1 - SUPERMAN: 1
JLA/AVENGERS #1 (2003)
As the JLA scout out Marvel Earth, Superman sees the "Savage" Hulk eating after causing a path of unimaginable destruction and contemplates if he should try and stop the brute. Batman tells Supes not to get involved and just continue on his observation of the planet. RESULT: NONE
FINAL TALLY: MATCH UPS: 7 HULK: 1 - SUPERMAN: 1
OTHER ENCOUNTERS
The Hulk
and Superman have been shown at odds a few times throughout the years. Listed here are all the comics that show them facing off or fighting, whether it be in a flashback, cover, parody, etc.
NOT BRAND ECHH #7 (1968)
A parody story on the Origin of Stupor-Man! The last splash page of the story shows Stupor-Man crying because he has realized that he is the "Marble" Age of Comics! The Bulk and other heroes are laughing while telling him this.
THE ART OF NEAL ADAMS (1975)
Cover of this master-artist, shows an image of the very first time the Marvel heroes and the DC heroes face off in a "dream" battle against each other. Mr. Adams drew for both comic companies and was such a big star that he could get away with stuff like this.
THE COMIC READER #163 (1978)
Cover of this early fan-magazine shows the image of a "Hulk vs Superman" scrap in official printed form (as well as the other famous DC and Marvel character match ups such as; Captain America vs Batman, Green Lantern vs Iron Man, Thor vs Wonder Woman, and Flash vs Quicksilver).
DC VERSUS MARVEL: PREVIEW (1995)
Preview issue of the big DC Versus Marvel crossover that was starting to shake up the comic industry. This issue compares all the heroes that will be fighting against each other with stats and biographies so fans can compare and vote for their favorite hero to decide who will win the match up.
WIZARD MAGAZINE #54 (1996)
Cover of this comic magazine showcases "Hulk vs Superman" as well as the other upcoming match ups in the DC Versus Marvel crossover.
DC VERSUS MARVEL #1 (1996)
Cover shows of all the DC and Marvel heroes matching up and getting ready for the battle of the century. While all the fights are intriguing, it's "Hulk vs Superman" as the main-event and its showcased at the top of the issue.
MARVEL VERSUS DC #2 (1996)
Cover shows all the DC and Marvel heroes at odds with their opponents. "Hulk vs Superman" is the main fight of the series and showcased directly in the center of the issue.
DC/MARVEL ALL ACCESS #1 (1996)
This issue shows a flashback of the Hulk and Superman brawl that occurred in the previous series of DC Versus Marvel.
WHEN DC AND MARVEL GET TOGETHER...
Now it's time to take a little trip away from this "Hulk vs Superman" write up for a brief history lesson. But don't worry fanboys, we will be getting back to the "dream" slugfest in a couple of paragraphs. While Hulk and Superman come from the two biggest and most prolific comic book companies in the world -- DC and Marvel comics, a match up like that will always generate the reader's interest. Comic fans can't help but get interested in seeing these two different comic company characters crossover and engage each other because it's the stuff they constantly fantasize about.
The first collaboration between DC and Marvel was on The Wizard of OZ Treasury back in 1975. But the first time two of their actual heroes crossed paths was in their second collaborative effort, The Superman vs Spider-man Treasury in 1976. While DC and Marvel characters have continued to crossover in the comics a bunch of times after this, they have never really been seen on the same products like toys, games, puzzles, etc. together (other than on bootlegs, non-official items, counterfeit items, company catalogs, ads, etc.). But there have been a few exceptions during the years and especially during the later part of the 1970s. Sometimes you would get an "officially" released item that would have characters from both DC and Marvel on it that was released to the mass-media. It was a rare occurrence, but it was always special to see. Here are a few examples of the Hulk and Superman as well as other DC and Marvel characters on an item together throughout the years.
The first collaboration between DC and Marvel was on The Wizard of OZ Treasury back in 1975. But the first time two of their actual heroes crossed paths was in their second collaborative effort, The Superman vs Spider-man Treasury in 1976. While DC and Marvel characters have continued to crossover in the comics a bunch of times after this, they have never really been seen on the same products like toys, games, puzzles, etc. together (other than on bootlegs, non-official items, counterfeit items, company catalogs, ads, etc.). But there have been a few exceptions during the years and especially during the later part of the 1970s. Sometimes you would get an "officially" released item that would have characters from both DC and Marvel on it that was released to the mass-media. It was a rare occurrence, but it was always special to see. Here are a few examples of the Hulk and Superman as well as other DC and Marvel characters on an item together throughout the years.
 |
| SUPERGRAPHICS SUPERHERO CALENDAR (1970) When Supergraphics opened its doors, one of its initial products was a comic character calendar with each month's image drawn by a top artist. The cover was illustrated with different comic company characters in full-color by Jim Steranko. |
 |
| THE STERANKO HISTORY OF COMICS vol. 1 (1970) One of the first books ever to legitimately showcase all the characters from the history of comics together on a cover. |
 |
| The envelope that THE STERANKO HISTORY OF COMICS came in also showcased Marvel and DC heroes together. |
 | |||||||||||
THE STERANKO HISTORY OF COMICS vol. 2 (1972) Jim Steranko followed up his first volume with this masterpiece that once again, showcased comic characters from various companies all together in an "official" release.
|
 |
MEGO
8" SUPER-HEROES: WORLD'S GREATEST TOYS! (2007) This book was
made to honor the Mego 8" super-hero line that was all the craze
during the late 70s. Even though both comic companies had their
characters in this toy line, the DC figures were on the front cover
as the Marvel figures were on the back cover separated from each
other.
|
 |
| WIZARD MAGAZINE (1991-2011) During the publication of this magazine, it always had DC and Marvel comic characters crossing over on the covers. |
Here is some more interesting information about your favorite superhero companies "trying" to work together to get the kids attention and their parents' money! Back in the day, manufactures went to the DC and Marvel offices to get the rights to use their characters on their products. The first toy ever to utilize both Marvel and DC characters (and other companies) on one product was Ideal's Captain Action "dress up" action-figure back in 1966. Ideal would advertise all the heroes involved with this action figure in comic book ads, magazine ads, store displays, etc. This was a truly historical event that DC and Marvel would expand on within the next 10 years. Here are a few examples of this extraordinary item.
 |
| The first and second issue Captain Action figures were released in 1966 and had the same packaging. This was the first time Marvel and DC heroes (among others) were featured on a product together. |
 |
| The third issue Captain Action figure was released in 1967 with a parachute. To make space for the parachute ad on the box, Captain America and Steve Canyon were removed. By 1968, when the fourth and final issue Captain Action figure was released, no heroes appeared on the box. |
 |
| With the release of Action Boy in 1967, the newer heroes that came to this series were presented on the back of the box with the more popular older ones. |
 |
| The first ever comic book or toy ad to utilize both DC and Marvel characters (as well as others) all together for one product was released in 1966 and shown in DC comic books. |
 |
| The Captain Action store display for retailers made in 1966 is the ultimate Captain Action collectible. It also holds such historical significance because it remains the first piece of advertisement that featured both DC and Marvel characters together (as well as others) to the mass-media. |
 |
| In 1967, Dr. Evil's Sanctuary was released as a J.C. Penny exclusive. It featured Spider-man, Superman, Batman, Aquaman and Captain America converging upon this craggy mountain retreat. It also had their costumes displayed on the inside. |
 |
| CAPTAIN AMERICA 1st issue Kresge card from MEGO (1974) This was the last of the Mego packaging that had Marvel and DC characters together on it. As this figure was released in February of 1974, by the middle of the year only Marvel characters could appear on Marvel packaging and DC characters only appeared on DC packaging. |
By mid 1973, both Marvel and DC started giving their character licenses to more manufacturing companies than ever. Never before was there so many different products with the likenesses of their characters in stores all over the world. For the next few years, toy, sticker, game, clothing, etc. companies were able to manufacture their products using characters from either DC or Marvel just as long as they weren't together on the same package. Here are a few examples of this:
 |
| THE COMIC ACTION HEROES from MEGO (1975) While this company put out both Marvel and DC characters of the same product, they had to be on different packages. |
 |
| THE ENERGIZED SUPERHEROES from REMCO (1979) Despite the different comic companies and packaging, these figures were part of the same toy line and could be played with together and become interchangeable. |
 |
THE
SUPERHERO MERCHANDISE CATALOG, THE SUPERHERO CATALOG TO GAMES, TOYS
AND PUZZLES, THE SUPERHERO BOOK OF GOODIES CATALOG, THE SUPERHERO
CATALOGUE, and THE HEROES WORLD CATALOG (1975-1979) This was
an awesome superhero toy catalog series for all the late 70s
items that were in stores. There were so many of the same DC and Marvel products in these issues that you would think that both comic companies were one big happy family... well, actually... they were, but for only a short time.
|
Seeing the "Super Heroes" logo on both Marvel and DC individual products was very common, especially during the late 70s until the mid 80s. Surprisingly, every now and then all the characters from both comic companies would appear on the same product with the "Super Heroes" logo in the forefront of the item (and sometimes not). This happened on a few rare occasions and I'm sure it didn't go over well with either comic company. But you better believe that the kids absolutely loved it (I know I did back in the day)!!! Here are a few examples of those items:
 |
The SUPER HEROES "original" logo that both DC and Marvel co-owned the trademark to and used from the late 70s until the mid 80s. While each comic company would put this logo on its individual products, there were rare occasions when both Marvel and DC characters appeared on the same item together and this logo was usually the forefront of the packaging.
BEN COOPER: TINY TOT BOX (1977)
|
 |
| FIDDLESTICKS: GIANT TOY BUILDER SET (1978) |
 |
| VENDING MACHINE CARD (1978) |
 |
| SUPER-HEROES GUNS from REDONDO (1978) |
 |
| VENDING MACHINE CARD (1979) |
 |
| SUPER-HEROES PUFFY STICKERS and display from OUR WAY STUDIOS (1980) |
 |
| A bunch of Marvel and DC items from OUR WAY STUDIOS (1980) showcased together from their catalog and in store displays. Notice at the top of the display that the heads of Batman and Spider-man are both saying "Super Heroes" to complement all the characters without actually referring to their individual names. |
 |
| SUPER HEROES PENS from U.S. PEN COMPANY (1980) |
 |
| PEZ CANDY DISPLAY (1982) |
What a lot of you may not realize is that Marvel and DC still both own the rights to the word "Super Hero" and continue to use it on their products to this very day. But one thing that has definitely changed since the mid 80s, is that you will most likely never see a Marvel or DC character on the same packaging again (other than on a non-official item). You better believe there is no love lost between DC owners at Warner Brothers and Marvel owners at Disney. Those mega-corporations want to rule the world... and to be truthful, between the both of them, they almost do! Here are a few examples of the use of the "Super Hero" trademark on a product today by both comic companies:
Okay, enough with the inter-company crossover lecture, let's get back to the "dream" slugfest between the Hulk and Superman!
 |
| MARVEL SUPER HEROES "HULK'S HELICARRIER BREAKOUT" from LEGO (2012) |
 |
| DC UNIVERSE SUPER HEROES "SUPERMAN'S METROPOLIS SHOWDOWN" from LEGO (2013) |
Okay, enough with the inter-company crossover lecture, let's get back to the "dream" slugfest between the Hulk and Superman!
While "Hulk vs Superman" will be debated on and argued about until the end of time, I was asked by many of you readers to try and find an unbiased answer to this match up. While this is no easy task and will most likely upset many of you lovable fanboys, I will give it my best shot. Now before I go into the actual issues and break down their fights and then wrap it all up, I wanted to add some creators with authority in the industry to showcase their views on this match up.
When the DC Versus Marvel event was over, Wizard magazine #66 (1997) did an article on each fight that took place. They asked the current writer's of each character
who they thought should have won the fight. In the case of "Hulk vs
Superman", Dan Jurgens (who was writing just about every Superman title
at the time) and Peter David (who was writing the Hulk) had their say on
it.
Dan Jurgens also wrote this to me after reading my "Hulk vs Superman" article:
"Fun stuff, John! When I was a kid, I always wanted to see a Hulk/Superman fight. My theory was always that the Hulk was so savage, so raw and able to "fight dirty", that he'd beat Superman. It's important to note that, at that time, DC's Superman was more passive and laid back. We're talking early 70's here.
In a way, that was the birth of what would eventually become Doomsday.
However, by the time I was doing Superman and we did the DC/Marvel x-over, it seemed more as though Superman would win. That Superman was a little more down-and-dirty, while the Hulk had actually become more restrained, civil and intelligent."
-Dan Jurgens
Next up is none other than the comic book maestro himself, Stan "THE MAN" Lee! He answered this question back in 2006 for Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine. While some may claim he's biased because he co-created the Hulk and the Marvel Universe, he is still the absolute grand-master of comic books. His opinions on anything comic-related is valid whether we agree with him or not and they hold more credibility than anyone else on the planet. So kneel down, zip your lip and listen up to greatness...
"If I wrote the story, I guarantee the Hulk would win. The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got. And Superman has a certain amount of strength and that's it. I assume at some point he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk."
Writer Peter David gives us another perspective on this fight in 2012. He gets another shout out from me because he has a lot of authority and knowledge on this subject that must be taken into consideration. He has written thousands of comic characters for both DC and Marvel including the Hulk (a 13 year stint) and Superman. He also co-wrote the DC Versus Marvel series and more importantly, issue #3 where the Hulk and Superman fought. Check it out by clicking the link below:
 |
| Superman writer Dan Jurgens and Hulk writer Peter David have their say about this legendary slugfest back in 1997. While both concede that the Hulk is physically the stronger, ultimately Superman would win due to his wide variety of super-powers. |
Dan Jurgens also wrote this to me after reading my "Hulk vs Superman" article:
"Fun stuff, John! When I was a kid, I always wanted to see a Hulk/Superman fight. My theory was always that the Hulk was so savage, so raw and able to "fight dirty", that he'd beat Superman. It's important to note that, at that time, DC's Superman was more passive and laid back. We're talking early 70's here.
In a way, that was the birth of what would eventually become Doomsday.
However, by the time I was doing Superman and we did the DC/Marvel x-over, it seemed more as though Superman would win. That Superman was a little more down-and-dirty, while the Hulk had actually become more restrained, civil and intelligent."
-Dan Jurgens
Next up is none other than the comic book maestro himself, Stan "THE MAN" Lee! He answered this question back in 2006 for Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine. While some may claim he's biased because he co-created the Hulk and the Marvel Universe, he is still the absolute grand-master of comic books. His opinions on anything comic-related is valid whether we agree with him or not and they hold more credibility than anyone else on the planet. So kneel down, zip your lip and listen up to greatness...
"If I wrote the story, I guarantee the Hulk would win. The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got. And Superman has a certain amount of strength and that's it. I assume at some point he'll get worn out, but never the Hulk."
Writer Peter David gives us another perspective on this fight in 2012. He gets another shout out from me because he has a lot of authority and knowledge on this subject that must be taken into consideration. He has written thousands of comic characters for both DC and Marvel including the Hulk (a 13 year stint) and Superman. He also co-wrote the DC Versus Marvel series and more importantly, issue #3 where the Hulk and Superman fought. Check it out by clicking the link below:
Writer extraordinaire Peter David explains what would really happen in a fight between the Hulk and Superman in 2012.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the Super-Heavyweight Champion of the Comic Book World... SUPERMAN!!!
Finally in 2020, Doomsday Clock #12 was released and written by Geoff Johns (who is the former Chief Creative Officer of DC Comics and their number one writer) stated in the story that Dr. Manhattan hints of a future crossover of Marvel & DC, and what he says is pretty shocking.
Most Superman fanboys can say what they want about that statement Geoff Johns wrote and try to discredit it. But the truth is, if he's saying that the Hulk (or the "Green Behemoth") is stronger than Doomsday, in a DC comic no less, he's making a pretty bold claim! I never hear fanboys argue about Superman being stronger than Doomsday, because he certainly isn't. But if Geoff Johns is writing stuff like this, then its gotta mean something BIG no matter what any fanboy says.
Well, I guess it's my turn to shed some light on this subject. The overall tally between these two elite Super-Heavyweights in 7 match ups ended in a solid 1 to 1 tie. However, both of those victories are not without controversies. The Hulk's victory that came in Superman and Spider-man: Marvel Treasury #28 can be argued if Superman was even knocked out at all, or was he merely stunned, or was he just in shock due to the surprise attack. I'm sure a debate can be made for each of these examples, but whatever your opinions may be, it had to be tallied against the Man of Steel because he was removed from the fight for a time. Superman's definitive knockout victory over the Hulk in Marvel Versus DC #3 was a fan-voted "WIN" and not a company or creator decision. This stems arguments that regardless of what you think would really happen in this fight, the more popular character was going to win no matter what (unfortunately, that's just what happened in the other fights...Wolverine beats up Lobo using only his "bone" claws... sheeeesh). So the question remains, is this victory even legitimate? I'll let the fanboys argue among themselves over that. As for all the other "Hulk vs Superman" brawls that occurred, most of them were pretty intense and even.
Most Superman fanboys can say what they want about that statement Geoff Johns wrote and try to discredit it. But the truth is, if he's saying that the Hulk (or the "Green Behemoth") is stronger than Doomsday, in a DC comic no less, he's making a pretty bold claim! I never hear fanboys argue about Superman being stronger than Doomsday, because he certainly isn't. But if Geoff Johns is writing stuff like this, then its gotta mean something BIG no matter what any fanboy says.
Well, I guess it's my turn to shed some light on this subject. The overall tally between these two elite Super-Heavyweights in 7 match ups ended in a solid 1 to 1 tie. However, both of those victories are not without controversies. The Hulk's victory that came in Superman and Spider-man: Marvel Treasury #28 can be argued if Superman was even knocked out at all, or was he merely stunned, or was he just in shock due to the surprise attack. I'm sure a debate can be made for each of these examples, but whatever your opinions may be, it had to be tallied against the Man of Steel because he was removed from the fight for a time. Superman's definitive knockout victory over the Hulk in Marvel Versus DC #3 was a fan-voted "WIN" and not a company or creator decision. This stems arguments that regardless of what you think would really happen in this fight, the more popular character was going to win no matter what (unfortunately, that's just what happened in the other fights...Wolverine beats up Lobo using only his "bone" claws... sheeeesh). So the question remains, is this victory even legitimate? I'll let the fanboys argue among themselves over that. As for all the other "Hulk vs Superman" brawls that occurred, most of them were pretty intense and even.
In truth, the answer on who has the overall edge in these fights may never be truly answered no matter what is printed on the comic pages. But I'm going to lay out all the facts here and try to put an end to this debate once and for all to see who has the right to be called the one-true Super-Heavyweight Champion of Comics; Superman or the Hulk!
While they are both very comparable on some aspects of their powers, in others they are not. When it comes to physical power, they are both at the top of the food-chain for their respected comic companies. Truth be told, no conventional hero or villain is going to be stronger than Superman in the DC Universe and the same can be said for the Hulk in the Marvel Universe... they are the standard, plain and simple. But when you compare them to each other, things change. While Supes has the higher base-level strength, endurance and durability at the beginning of the fight, once the Hulk get's going, it's the same old Hulk-formula; The madder the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets. While Superman can rarely ever be matched or exceeded in this department, he is ultimately going to be against someone like the Hulk because Supes has a "cap" on his levels (although they are immeasurable). The Hulk doesn't have any limits because that's how his powers work. He will continually grow stronger, more durable, more relentless and constantly regenerate as the fight progresses and Superman will eventually begin to slow down. In their epic fights from Superman and Spider-man: Marvel Treasury #28 and The Incredible Hulk vs Superman, this can be clearly seen as the Hulk is shown to be getting stronger and stronger with each passing second and begins closing the gap between them. So without any doubt in my mind, the edge goes to ol' Jade Jaws here.
 |
| When it comes to potential physical power output, even Superman ranks behind The Incredible Hulk. |
That is where the comparisons end. While the Hulk has the edge in the physical attributes potentially, Superman makes up for it with everything else... and I do mean everything else! And here lies The Man of Steel's great advantage over the Green-Skinned Goliath (and just about everyone else). The powers of flight, super-speed, heat vision, ice-breath, etc., etc., etc. is what makes the Man of Steel stands on a level of overall power that is so extreme it borders on the ridiculous. He can do just about anything he wants... he brings the meaning of "super" to a whole new level. All this insane versatility can be more problems than even the Ever-Incredible Hulk is able to handle. WOW! How many characters can make that claim? Sure, the Hulk can still win this fight, his tenacity and utter-savagery while growing more powerful put him in a class by himself and make him such a ferocious and dangerous opponent. This extreme approach against Supes passive and gentle nature can cause the Hulk to overwhelm him, so the Last Son of Krypton has to be prepared to fight it out on a level he is not used too right out of the gate. If he does that, no matter how crazy or how strong the Hulk gets, Superman is going to win this fight the majority of the time. Yup, although it will be his toughest test ever, Kal-El has the mind, the skill, the experience and the overall versatile power-set to make the difference and just barely walk away as the one-true victor.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the Super-Heavyweight Champion of the Comic Book World... SUPERMAN!!!
And the crowd goes wild...
Agree? Disagree? Let's hear it fanboys!!
Check out other "DEFINITIVE WRITE UPS" here:
Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth
http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/06/jack-kirby-vs-alex-toth.html
Superman vs Captain Marvel
http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/06/jack-kirby-vs-alex-toth.html
Superman vs Captain Marvel
Captain America vs Wolverine
Thor vs Ulik
Thor vs Silver Surfer
Hulk vs Thor
Hulk vs Silver Surfer
Hulk vs Juggernaut
Hulk vs Hercules
Hulk vs Sub-Mariner
Hulk vs Thing
WOW! This is unbelievable! I have been waiting for you to do something with this rivalry for a long time and you did not disappoint. I'm a fan John, I really, really am.
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot. I'll give my best and then I hope for the best. I'm really appreciative of all the support and acknowledgement. Thanks again.
DeleteHulk wins in SUPERMAN AND SPIDER-MAN: MARVEL TREASURY #28 (1981)?!? Realy? Ridiculous.
DeleteWith all due respect, non canon fights between Superman and the Hulk cannot be used as evidence as to who wins. Should I remind you of the Batman/Hulk crossover where Batman defeated the Hulk by kicking him in the stomach thus opening his lungs to knockout gas when the Hulk has been shown to be durable enough to shrug off human attacks like they were nothing? Besides they're unofficial meetings between characters and do not accurately depict a character's power level.
ReplyDeleteAs for David's point, I won't doubt its possibility of happening given that he knows Hulk very well and Superman quite well. What I will say is that it would be unlikely to happen that Hulk would have more of a chance of winning as the fight goes on. Superman's vastly superior combat speed and nanosecond reaction times are leaps and bounds ahead of the Hulk's own reaction times. Even if Hulk does get stronger than Superman and he'd have to get very strong to do that, it doesn't mean he can hit him. On the other hand, Superman can hit Hulk many more times than Hulk can hit Superman. So, as has been in the case on many battle forums for a long time, it's generally agreed that Superman massively outclasses the Hulk already. Pitting a brick against a flying, superfast brick does have an obvious outcome.
if it's published it's canon deal with it
DeleteWhat is this guy even talking about? Crossover stories are non-cannon yet the only time the Hulk and Superman can meet is in a crossover story. I'm sorry, but this is the dumbest post I have ever read in my life. Seriously, what is he talking about?
DeleteI have to ask because I'm curious, why do you say these things? Please tell me your reasoning for even making such statements?
I have to know!!
Here we go again. These are the type of obsessive fanboys that go around and throw their "pot-bellied" and "pimpled" faced opinions and think they know more than even the creators in the industry. That is why no one will ever take you seriously. Have you ever been in a fight Lvenger? Do you know that despite what technique or skill set you have, if you don't have the mind to use them properly you will still lose to an opponent who has more heart and desire. Look at boxing, MMA and other sports (things I can guarantee you've never played before in your life).
DeleteSuperman loses all the time to people he is faster than, stronger than and more capable than. It is no different with the Hulk. The Hulk is just much more capable and stronger than anyone he has ever faced. And one more thing, these characters are fake!!!! If a writer wants Superman to lose or win, it's up to him. And no fanboy like you will ever change that.
Truth hurts my friend (yes, I'm kidding. I'm sure you don't have any real ones)
I lose when losers try to act all hardcore. Did people say all these things to you, and now you say to other people on the internet ('cause of one of many discussions about characters, even though when the other one is polite)?
DeleteWhat, did Lvenger (and possibly others) proved you wrong before and now you GET BACK AT HIM AS AN ANONYMOUS? OMFG WHAT A GENIUS.
I only read comic vine, and there is nothing more natural than what you're doing. Good debaters get attacked by the fanboys 'cause they didn't say their favorite character wins. Why do you think he doesn't even answer you? Because you're awesome? NO, HE GETS LOSERS LIKE YOU, WHO SAYS THE SAME THING (funny huh, it's always the same thing in other words... Friends, life, how he is wrong, etc...) ALL THE TIME. LMAO. NOBODY CARES TO YOUR RAAAAAGEEE (HEY, LIKE THE LOSER HULK! Ops, I meant incredible)
Oh yeah, Hulk loses. Deal with it. Rage all you want on anyone you want, you're so badass anyway... But it won't change anything, not your life, not hulk losing. Nobody cares if you don't want hulk to lose. He does, and that's it.
Okay, I went a little to your level, I usually don't take you sick people seriously to the point of writing so much or even trying to"own you back", but whatever. Seriously though, man... Grow up, c'mon.
I always knew the Hulk was stronger than Superman, but the fact that Superman had so many other powers was the reason why the Hulk is going to lose this one. Good information here, I commend you.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pakbuzz.com/ptc-submission.shtml
ReplyDeleteAGdAV: Second, in the last moments, when Hulk released his real fury, causing massive destruction and blowing energy from his body, who could stop it? I meant, what heroes could stop it? Superman, maybe?
Greg Pak: With all due respect to the Distinguished Competition, I don't think even Superman would stand a chance. In the end, only the Hulk himself could provide the opening that Iron Man needed to end the madness.
I agree with Pak here. But the writer stated that the Hulk can win, just not the majority of the time. It all comes down to circumstances. In the WW Hulk storyline, Supes would have no chance against the Hulk there. But in the majority, even I agree, Superman will win this fight most of the time.
DeleteVery well written and exactly my thinking.
DeleteWhy does everyone ignore the fact that while Hulk's strength increases with his anger, they've NEVER seen Superman's anger? Who KNOWS what an angry Kryptonian can and would do? If Superman follows the Hulk's logic, he'll have green paste covering his hands after his first punch!
ReplyDeleteNo he wouldn't. Superman doesn't get stronger like the Hulk does when he gets angry. Sure, when anybody gets mad they get a rush of adrenaline but the Hulk's power states that he has a limitless base of anger, so his powers grow and grow. Superman can't win this fight brawling it out with the Hulk, he will lose plain and simple. He has to use his other powers to get the edge or else it's Superman who's going to end up as paste!
DeleteNOBODY knows what would happen if Superman lost his temper as the Hulk does! He's never lost it before! If Superman wanted to send the Hulk crashing into the moon, there's not much doubt in anyone's mind that THAT is what would happen. All Hulk was able to do was send Superman flying a few miles away, remember? :)
DeleteWrong again. You are trying to change Superman's personality, he just doesn't have it in him to be "Hulk" angry. I have when fanboys say if this guys does that when he doesn't because that's just the way he is. It's like the Silver Surfer, he fights as well as a 2 year old...because he's a pacifist. That's who he is!! Dan Jurgens, who wrote an answer on these comments stated it best (just look below). You can't change the characters personality just because you want Superman to do something. Too bad for you because Supes will get angry and the Hulk will still get more so.
DeleteAnd by the way, using that Hulk sent Superman only a few miles away wasn't good enough? Well in the Hulk vs Superman one-shot he sent him to Saturn!!!! How's that for better? Plus this shows you that the Hulk is far stronger than Big Blue, with the creators backing me, you lose this argument.
We've seen Superman lose his rag plenty of times - notably against Wonder Woman during the "Sacrifice" arc, where he was explicitly trying to kill her. He certainly didn't reduce her to pulp with one punch.
DeleteSuperman has dynamic power-levels, but not to the same extent as the Hulk, who is completely unique amongst mainstream comic characters in that regard.
There's too much wrong with your POV to go into here, but here's a link to one of the arguments as to why hulk has no chance against Superman.
Deletehttp://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=superman-2013040109591331&layout=thread
Nothing to see here but a bunch of fanboys who can't handle the truth, kind of like you Gernot.
DeleteBelieve in this blog because at least this writer speaks the truth. And if you want to keep arguing, read the blog over and over. Creators are used to prove his point, not fanboy blind love.
Happy reading.
So true. Just a bunch of Superman fanboys who cannot admit that The Hulk is stronger than their hero. I love when creators even back up Hulk fans claims.
DeleteSuperman cracks dimensions with one punch hulk levels mountains. I'm not too sure if I'm the only one to notice this difference.
DeleteWow never seen so many but hurt hulk fanboys,look..superman doesn't have a upper limit in strenght and can destroy whole planets and blow away whole galaxies, hulk is onky capable of lifting mountains and buildings superman lifted the whole weight of the earth for five days straight without stopping or being in direct sunlight for the entire time,he has traveled and broke through the source wall and fought death himself..have you seen or read about hulk doing anything like that? The obvious answer is no. Superman would win every and any fight against the hulk seeing hes much faster and much,much stronger than the hulk could ever be,it's not my fault the facts are also the truth so just accept it and get some preparation h to help you with that but hurt of yours because when push comes to shove superman will always be victorious against the much weaker and slower hulk.
DeleteWhy do you say it's Hulk fanboys when it's also the creators "who write Superman" that say that the Hulk is stronger. You're just a fanboy who reads the comics so your opinion means nothing. Until DC or Marvel pay you for your services then you have a say. Until then Dan Jurgens or Peter David's opinions means more than yours. A LOT MORE!
DeleteOh, and like Jurgens said; Doomsday is basically the DC Hulk and Doomsday is stronger than Superman. Makes sense doesn't it?
An angry Hulk would simply tear Superman limb from limb. First rip off an arm, and then tear the rest in half. Superman may have some invulnerability, but he's not definitively indestructible. The cinch here is what each character would actually do. Superman wouldn't tear the Hulk limb from limb, but a sufficiently savage Hulk might do it to him.
ReplyDeleteOh, and, an idea for a test of the Hulk's true strength: Cosmic villains catch him and put him on an artificial neutron star that is a hair's breadth away from becoming a black hole. Somehow agitate him to the max, make the star collapse and see if the black hole would gobble up the super-angry/super-strong Hulk! My view: It wouldn't. The Hulk would swim in the event horizon in slow motion as if it were heavy liquid, and he would resist its pull and thrash about and SMASH THAT BLACK HOLE INTO PURE HAWKING RADIATION! Ha.
A lot of good information here. I'm very impressed with your research, good work.
ReplyDeleteA nice response from Superman and Thor writer extraordinaire Dan Jurgens sent me this message...enjoy.
ReplyDelete"Fun stuff, John! When I was a kid, I always wanted to see a Hulk/Superman fight. My theory was always that the Hulk was so savage, so raw and able to "fight dirty", that he'd beat Superman. It's important to note that, at that time, DC's Superman was more passive and laid back. We're talking early 70's here.
In a way, that was the birth of what would eventually become Doomsday.
However, by the time I was doing Superman and we did the DC/Marvel x-over, it seemed more as though Superman would win. That Superman was a little more down-and-dirty, while the Hulk had actually become more restrained, civil and intelligent."
-Dan Jurgens
Nice to hear he was such a fan. And this is all the proof in the world that Doomsday is just a carbon copy of the Hulk.
DeleteGreat blog John.
This is brilliant work. Amazing what an unbiased and well informed researcher of comic book lore can do. Keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteJohn- I think everything you wrote was spot on - so thorough - and I totally agree with you. I must say however that Dan Jurgens raises an interesting point about how 'savage' the Hulk can be, and also about how restrained Superman was at one time. During the Byrne 'reboot' he fought Bizarro for the first time and wasn't even sure he could win because he'd never fought anyone close to his own power level before. I feel that given the circumstances, if the Hulk and Superman collided during that time frame, Superman would still eventually win because he would probaby get frustrated and angry himself, becoming unrestrained.
ReplyDeleteAnyway- what I really wanted to point out, was how Marvel kind of brought 'Superman' into the 'Avengers' during the 70s without it really being 'Superman', and also how he kicked all their butts. Avengers #164-166 - Count Nefaria - Jim Shooter wrote it, Byrne/Marcos (A great team) did the art - great story and gives a reader the true scope of Superman's power in comparison to the entire team of Avengers of that time; which were by no means lightweights. Food for thought- Lmao, and one hell of a great story.
Thanks Nick. And just so you know, I did a great review on those Avenger comics right here on this little blog. Check it out and see why me and you are on the same level...
Deletehttp://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/01/avengers-vol1-164-165-166-1977.html
I just read it - that's really cool! I totally agree with you again- Those three comics to me have been a mainstay- some of the best rereads and something I'm going to share with the twins when they get old enough. I still have the original copies I bought when they sold them in three-packs for .99 at grocery stores- lol. (Now I also have them on disc) Fantastic entry- I actually liked the fact that Simon Williams acted like a bitch sometimes because it showed he was still human, and needed someone to look up to like Captain America, whom he learned Courage from during that story as well as the later Korvac story. And Yes- its funny, but in spite of anything anyone could ever say about Jim Shooter - he always told a great story, and kept his 'house' in order. I met Marcos recently last summer when I was doing a book signing at the SuperMega Con in Northern NJ - he was at the show- still draws like a fiend! The dude is unreal! I enjoyed his Atlas work too - Iron Jaw was great- I think you stole his abs somehow - Lmao. Not sure if you ever read Doomsday+1, but Byrne is continuing the story in IDW - I think his work suffered and suffers because of the inking (when he inks his own) and probably because he rushes. To me the 70s 'dream team' for art would have to be early Perez/Byrne/Marcos - get the three together for a massive awesome story with Wolfman/Shooter/Englehart writing it - wouldn't even matter what characters because they would make them great.
DeleteI'm really enjoying this blog- a lot to read and your research is always spot-on!
I have to agree, this write up was spot on. Good job to the writer.
DeleteEpic!!
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid I had DC Super Friends sheets with Marvel Heroes blankets on top. I took me a long time to realize that they were from different comic companies. I used to always compare all the heroes with each other constantly. Hulk vs Superman was always the biggest fight that I could think of. I was the biggest Superman fan but I always thought that the Hulk would win this fight. Now mind you, I didn't like it at all.
ReplyDeleteFantastic research. I may not agree with everything but how can I argue with such quality? Keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteThis is the most unbiased and comprehensive assessment of superhero battles that I've ever read. While The Incredible Hulk is my favorite of the two, the evidence presented of past battles coupled with an accurate profile of the combatants leads me to agree with your conclusion. If Superman was able to commit himself to do what was necessary to defeat The Hulk while maintaining his composure, he would be the favorite in a bout. I wouldn't give him even money odds due to the possibility of wild card factors that could enter into any fight, but he would have a big edge.
ReplyDeleteBeyond the in-depth match-up analysis, your discussion of the crossovers in which they occurred and then providing an overview of merchandise crossovers provides readers with a greater understanding of the comic crossovers themselves, and what a big deal they were to the fans who requested and supported them.
Within this article alone, you've touched on material which could be the foundation of an incredible book on company crossovers within the pages of the comics themselves, what led up to them, and how they both impacted and inspired the fan and creative communities, as well as the products that grew out of them. You should consider writing many books about the heroes you know so well. Thanks for the entertainment and thought-provoking commentary. All the best.
Thank you my friend, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I hope you enjoy the rest of the blog as well and please let me know what you think.
DeleteI couldn't have said it better myself.
DeleteI have to agree. While I do not like the results of all the fights, I cannot really complain about it because this article is so well written. It is a rare occurrence to see an author write an unbiased article on something so debated on. Hulk vs. Superman will always have their favorites but you cut it even down the middle and gave both characters their due.
DeleteI'm impressed.
I always wanted to read something like this throughout the years, keep up the good work. I've become a regular reader.
ReplyDeleteHas thor ever fought superman? I guess no point since most think superman will beat hulk, and thor is less durable than hulk. Is thors lighting considered magical? If so does he even have a chance anyway?
ReplyDeleteThor got beaten up by Superman in the JLA/Avengers crossover in 2003/2004.
DeleteI will not complain because this is your opinion but saying superman has more powers don't mean anything. Most of the powers superman has hulk would shrug off like he did everyone else. Hulk would win like peter david and stan lee said cuz don't matter how strong superman is he has a limit, hulk don't
ReplyDeleteActually the writer states that the Hulk CAN win, just no the majority of the time. I think that's pretty accurate.
DeleteHave just encountered your page and I guess you should be complimented for this piece. More power to you!
ReplyDeleteI could care less if Superman can beat the Hulk the majority of the time, I just love how Greenskin is stronger than the boyscout. Because when you talk about the Hulk, it's always about strength, and nobody is stronger than Hulk!
ReplyDeletewell nearly no one except the arguable possibility of Hercules
DeleteHercules? He can't even get past Wonder Woman and Wolverine, who have both consistently kicked his ass time and time again. Hahahahahaha, Hercules? A peer yes, but stronger than the Hulk? Now that's just comedy gold right there. The writer of this article should do a Wolverine versus Hercules thread, I would love it.
DeleteLet's bring out Wolverine to kick Hercules' ass again!
If I'm correct, Wolverine is 3 and 0 against Hercules.
DeleteThe thing I must point out is while SM has all those other abilities is this not really about brute strength? Is SM heat vision or ice breath going to hurt the Hulk! NO! Is his ability to fly going to make a difference... hmmm no that might be the only advantage because toe to toe the Hulk is way to strong and if he got a hold of SM he could pretty much rip him in half and I don't think any amount of yellow sun is going to bring him back together! This debate has been going on forever a if the the Hulk is what they say he cannot be knocked out based upon how fast he regenerates! TRUE? Which means that he pretty much is indestructible while as SM is not! Look at it this way Superman's biggest rival is a common guy who actually has hurt him! The Hulk does not have a weakness except his rage which is what gives him any amount of power based on he has to be the strongest in any fight and will just get angrier till he wins! Superman can only fight Hulk to a draw at best!
ReplyDeleteLets take a scenario over here.....Imagine that your super angry with someone and with that adrenaline surging through you are temporarily stronger than your opponent.....but too bad for you your opponent plays dirty and hits your head with an iron rod...what happens...you BLACK OUT.....similarly hulk will get stronger as he gets angrier but what people forget is that hulk isin't made of vibranium!! He is NOT indestructible...Hulk is able to shrug of most of the attacks because they DO NOT come from an opponent of his strength class whereas superman IS his strength class....So all supes got to do is knock him out...with the arsenal of powers he's got I think superman has a pretty good chance of doing it......Just a view.....
ReplyDeleteWrong! When the Hulk gets angry his strength, endurance, invulnerability and healing increase as well. Superman has no hope in this fight if it goes past the first few minutes.
DeleteI agree 100% with Cimino's point of view (great work by the way). I'm a big Hulk fan but based on what we have seen in the pages between the 3 battles it comes down to this.
ReplyDeleteHulk can be stronger than Superman given time in battle, which makes Hulk stronger than Superman. Hulk can knock out Supes with a well placed blow if the fight is going to go hand to hand. Example of this can be seen when Solomon Grundy and Knovict KOed Supes in the past and if they did it so can Hulk. For those who say well Supes would just throw Hulk in to the sun don't really KNOW Supes because he never did that when fighting Solomon Grundy or Knovict. Superman would rather lose than go deadly unless a life is a stake. To Superman credit he should win most of the battles with Hulk because he has to many powers and that combination plus super strength can take Hulk down and he doesn't have a warriors code to keep him locked in a pure hand to hand combat like Thor does.
-Hulk stronger
-Superman more powerful.
Ok, I had to weigh in.
ReplyDeleteYes, Superman makes up for it in everything else. The Hulk's only advantage is limitless strength. So let us go into another matchup that is definitely cannon and see how that works out.
Doomsday proved that Superman can be defeated by pure raw muscle power, provided that there is enough of it. Doomsday can serve as a stand-in for the Hulk, especially the Savage Hulk, because while Doomsday is a Kryptonian, he's a severely mutated one whose only powers are strength, speed, invulnerability, and healing.
What the Hulk has that Doomsday doesn't have is the ability to get stronger during a fight. Doomsday does this in a round-about way by becoming immune to whatever killed him. The Hulk has his powers increase during a fight.
That doesn't mean the Hulk can't be defeated. He can. But the secret is to knock him out while it is still possible, because soon it won't be.
My final analysis:
Short fight - Superman wins.
Long fight - Hulk wins. Easily.
There wouldn't be short fight , here why : Hulk has best Healing factor , and adapting powers ( plus unlimited strenght and stamina ). Hulk can become so resistable to supermans puches and beams that wouldn't even feel it in werry short time ( 5 min. most ). AND he can move and breath in every enviorment ( Including space ). So supes doesn't stand a chance .
DeleteThis was a well put together peice. And to be honest it was quite refreshing. I saved this peice to my phone for future reference. Thank you! The way it is written snuffs out any chance of a flame war for either side.i feel like hoping on a vs forum regarding tgese heros and slamming this on them. I dont agree with the winner I. The end but hey I cant complain. Not one bit. Very insightful on both sides and definitely cleared up any misconceptions. I have no qualms with you writing on any character because of how the source material coupled with an unbiased take on things resolves any doubts. We all r biased about these things. Its human nature to do so, but in this peice I see none. Bias tend to convolute the message but your message was well received an clear. Thanks again! I am for yhe hulk being a victor more often than not. Reason being is he is written as the underdog, he usually is always fighting a superior opponent but finds away to come out on top. Thats why he has the anger increases everything shtick.
ReplyDelete"The madder the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets"
ReplyDeleteAlways struck me as a really weak cheap plot device.
Besides, sine one can someone get "infinitely angry"?
Sooner or later there is a limit to how angry someone an get.
Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hulk except in bad writing.
Agree to disagree, pis writing affects every comic character at one time or another. But its hard to argue a well written peice that someone took the time to do research and submit a valid informative article. And defin clears up any muddy waters that happen to come from not so informed fans.
DeleteOk, let us drop "madder hulk gets stronger hulk gets" and write it down as a polite exaggeration based on the fact that he has a healing factor. It doesn't really change the analysis that the longer the fight goes the better it is for the Hulk. Superman gets tired.
DeleteShort fight - Superman. Long fight - Hulk.
To Dar, I'm a big superman fan and I don't even agree with that, you make the rest of us look bad. Both characters are really close in strength, but even I know hulk eventually gets stronger.
DeleteTo all who love Hulk vs Superman stuff; check out a 5 page mini comic battle drawing on- Hulk: engine of destruction -site.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to say that I love your pieces. At last some reasoned well thought out, non biased arguments. I agree with your conclusions 100% and just wish the fanboys would stop either giving Hulk a lack of respect (he would put up a game fight and not be "stomped") or bigging up Hulk's strength against the big blue. I've come up against some of these characters on the likes of Comic Vine and they are insanely mad people, aggressively hostile to anyone who dares give an opinion which doesn't conform with theirs! Can you please do a Superman v Thor blog now, that's another potentially cracking match up!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with this. The writer should be commended for some great work.
DeleteThank you for the kind words. While I do agree with what you said about aggressive "fanboys" on other forums, you can't hate them for it. They have passion, but unfortunately they are so invested in their favorite character that they always seem to lose sight on what is shown in the comic itself. While I have my favorites as well, I like to write articles based on the actual facts and that sometimes throws a lot of people off (especially when talking about fictional fights). It's truly the only way you can honor the creators and the industry itself we know and love. I've been praised many times for being unbiased so I am accomplishing what I have always set out to do, so thank you once again. When you write with your head and not your heart, the truth always comes out...but most of the time, it's the truth that people DON'T want to hear. Silly, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteAs for "Superman vs Thor"? Stay tuned true believer!
superman would win because he is more popular than hulk. that is the truth. in reality hulk will win because because he is bombard with a massive gamma radiation, which is more powerful than the sun. if hulk activates is world breaker hulk mode, superman will be overwhelmed. even with the heat vision, and freeze breath he has, superman will fall.
ReplyDeleteosarumen erhunmwunsee, check your science. The Sun is so much more powerful than any nuclear test or "gamma bomb" detonated by humans it's laughable. The Sun itself radiates enormous amounts of radiation in every spectrum from microwaves to cosmic radiation, and yes that includes Gamma
ReplyDeleteThe Sun radiates more power in all energy spectrums in an instant than all of Earth's nuclear devices built over all time put together from now into the future. Of course Superman doesn't get all of that energy, but the point is the power source of the Sun is for all intents and purposes unlimited.
The science doesn't really matter though, because if it did it makes utterly no sense. Where does Hulk's power come from? Is he really walking around with the power of a "gamma bomb" nuclear test? Then why doesn't Bruce Banner just explode, or radiate atomic gamma pellets that kill everyone coming close to him? Same with Superman-- he should be white hot and unable to interact with anything.
This article is great-- though my one complaint that in writing to make the two equal, it seriously glosses over that 1970's Superman/Hulk fight by cherry-picking a single lucky punch from the Hulk.
Superman won that fight without throwing a punch. Hulk hit him with all the strength he had-- and a prepared Superman *didn't move*. Think about how powerful that is. That 1970's Superman could move planets-- face it, and was so fast he could move around the earth seven times before Hulk could take in a breath. Hulk just wasn't in his class.
In that fight, Superman ended up hearing a tiny device buzzing around Hulk's head that was driving Hulk crazy, he grabbed it out of the air at super-speed and incinerated with with heat vision all while calmly deflecting punches from Hulk that would have shattered mountains. He did it so fast Hulk didn't even notice. The moment the device was destroyed, Hulk turned to Bruce Banner and collapsed in exhaustion.
THANK YOU for giving voice to my single biggest complaint about this blog post: the fight between Superman and The Hulk, featured in 1981's SUPERMAN AND SPIDER-MAN, was absolutely misrepresented here. How in the world the blog writer could conclude that this battle ended with The Hulk as the victor. is beyond me. By the logic here, If two boxers compete in a ring and Boxer 1 knocks Boxer 2 to the canvas, Boxer 1 wins the match even if Boxer 2 gets up and continues to fight.
DeleteThe only time during that altercation that The Hulk had anything close to an advantage was when he caught Superman by surprise, and that was only because the latter had underestimated the former. (And what does it say about Superman's base power level that he would underestimate The Hulk?) Once Superman was prepared, "no power on Earth" could move him.
Which includes The Hulk.
Superman wins.
Someone else beat me to this comment...but it bears repeating. Hulk's strength is based in his anger. And while he has POTENTIAL unlimited STRENGTH...there is a limit to how angry one can get. Too angry and it would result in a stroke or brain aneurism. Even if not so, what high-end strength feats has the Hulk demonstrated that are a match for Superman's? Superman has feats that include lifting 1/3 (or more) of the world (you can see the scans on ComicVine for example), cracking the space/time continuum with his punches and sneezing a solar system out of existence. The best strength feat for Hulk is what...bracing a TINY part of a 150 billion ton mountain? He wasn't lifting it or even supporting it (as certain Hulk FBs claim) only a small part of it. Hulk has no strength feats comparable with Superman's best.
ReplyDeleteAnd to the guy who said WB Hulk could take Supes? Well if we are using the BEST variation of heros...I'll take Silver Age Superman. Or 1000,000 AD Superman or All-Star Superman...:)
Not to mention that if both heroes were going full out...it would be over in about one second flat or less since Superman's base-level strength is FAR greater than Hulk's base level strength. Even if we agree that Hulk can eventually get limitless strength that is greater than Superman's...Superman is never going to let him get to that level...not if he is not holding back that is and going full out.
If both characters are written as going FULL-OUT and to the full extent of their powers...Hulk is not anywhere near Superman's league...MAYBE (and that's a big maybe) eventually. But not from the starting bell (so as to speak.)
lol... superman is no where near physically strong as that, characters like lobo, grundy can easily throw him as physically and hurt him
DeleteFirst off, let me just say - I am a Marvel Comics fan, but I like Superman more than I like the Hulk. And so I am more familiar with Supes than I am with the Hulk. And so; if we're going strictly by cannon then the Hulk doesn't have to have unlimited 'anger' in order to beat Superman, all he has to do apparently is get angry enough to where he's just a tad stronger than Doomsday was (probably shouldn't be too hard for him since he's already close to that level when the fight starts). I do believe that the Hulk has fought Thor in the past and came out on top, not sure how "epic" that fight was, but I know that Superman fought Shazzam and was nearly defeated when Shazzam continued to grab Supes and shout his name (kinky right?), and a bolt of lightning would strike Superman. So Thor might prove troublesome to the man of steel. I tend to think that Superman would use his wits to defeat the Hulk though and would win 8 out of 10 times they fought. But when we get right down to it, it's the unstoppable force verses the immovable object, and thus is an argument in futility.
ReplyDeleteVery good analyse !
ReplyDeleteI just don't see how Superman can win against Hulk if the fight were to go the distance. My criteria of judgment is whether the fight ends quickly or is a drawn-out slugging match. I'm looking at Doomsday and how he withstood Superman's heat vision and freeze breath. Doesn't Hulk get faster as well as stronger as his anger increases? I simply see Doomsday as a Hulk copy, at this point.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Superman fan from way back, ever since I was a young boy, but, nevertheless, I think Hulk wins this one, as was stated by the writers.
Since Hulk is Bruce Banner, his anger would have a limit since people in real life have a ceiling for their anger limit, that is, assuming his psyche has not been altered to be superhuman due to radiation exposure. Still, even then, Hulk would still have a limit to his anger, unless he's a god.
I admit, though, my comic book knowledge is rather small, but I liked coming here to see what's what and to read the comments. I'm curious though, when did Superman break a dimension with a punch?
I personally have Hulk winning. As shown here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmjHaiO59lc&feature=youtu.be
He has defenses against nearly everything Supes can do and he has the strength and anger to overpower him eventually.
Who cares its a comic book... you people need a life and need to move out of your parents basement!
ReplyDeleteSuperman is not the most powerful or strongest in dc and same with hulk in marvel.they just happen to be the most famous of the really powerful superheros so folks think they are the most powerful or the strongest and it's not true.
ReplyDeleteA could name some villains and superheros stronger and more powerful then them.Recent ones and older ones.
Name some please im interested
ReplyDeleteVegas odds says Hulk should win this 2 to 1.
ReplyDeleteSuperman is just a passive soul while the Hulk is an unrelenting savage that loves to fight.
Result: Hulk KO in Round 3.
I prefer the Hulk to Superman, but I think the victory would go to the big blue boy scout. Yes, the Hulk (even in the words of creators who have written both characters) has the potential to be stronger than Supes, but strength isn't everything. Hell, the Hulk himself said this while in his Joe Fixit days, beating the hell out of Ben Grim in Central Park. The Hulk has lost plenty of fights to weaker characters, sure he makes come backs, but he still loses.
ReplyDeleteSo does Superman.
However, Superman is IT. He is THE icon, the one that lead the way for all the others. It's not just a matter of his powers being greater, or his speed and heat vision and all that, it's that (when written by a good writer) he is better than everyone else because of WHO he is, not what he can do. He is kinder, never gives up, always finds a way to make things better, and he does all this and more not to put us in our place, but to show us that WE can be that way too. That is why he wins, he is a better person than the Hulk, and in comic books, that is supposed to be what it is all about.
Both of these guys have fought analogues of each other. Gladiator of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard is Superman with a mohawk, and the Hulk beat him in a really good fight. Doomsday was the Hulk with claws, and after that first epic battle where it cost Kal-El his "life", each time he fights Doomsday he seems to get the win easier. Taking this into account, any raging fanboys/fangirls can go back and read those stories to balm their hurt feelings.
I love the Hulk, but stronger or not, Superman would eventually come out on top.
Agreed, but just fyi, in that first epic battle where it cost Kal-El his life, it also cost Doomsday his life. Superman stopped Doomsday, & laid down his life once he ascertained from Lois that Doomsday was finished. A lot of people miss that subtle point.
DeleteOther than that minor addition, a good answer.
This was an awesome read! I have to commend you John for a well informed and unbiased article. Please keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteNobody can deny the Hulk's physical strength.
ReplyDeleteHis powers give him the ability to make this claim. The madder he gets, the stronger he gets. Hulk is the strongest one there is.
Perfect.
Hey John,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of Sun God (aka Superman wannabe) defeating the Hulk in New Avengers #20?
And what do you think about the Hulk and Thanos fight in Thanos vs Hulk #2?
Just curious and love your blog.
Brian
Some great questions Brian.
DeleteWell the question is, why did Bruce Banner showed up unconcious when the Hulk was hit by Sun God's blast? If you read the previous issue; New Avengers #19, Banner has Beast give him a special injection that helps him "throttle back" the Hulk and let's him regain control. So in the fight, when the Hulk was raging and smashing down on Sun God, the serum had to be taking effect because he was getting crazy. Then the Hulk get's blasted by Sun God's heat vision and Banner is next seen knocked out. Did the Hulk lose? Technically, yes. But the Hulk was somewhat de powered in this fight. And the writer, Jonathan Hickman used this "plot device" to move the story along and keep the Hulk's reputation intact.
Whatever.
As for the Hulk vs Thanos brawl? It makes me crack up when I hear fanboys say that Thanos beat the Hulk up in this fight. Did anybody read this (horrible) issue? This wasn't a "physical" match up at all, it was a "mental" one. It was Banner vs Thanos via the mind! The Hulk and Thanos never actually touched one another even though they were brawling it out because it was within a dream. And whatever fanboys think should happen in a Hulk vs Thanos match up, this battle cannot be used as cannon fodder for each character. The fight is a complete let down and waste of time because of this dreamscape technicality. All this fight proved was that Thanos has a more powerful mind than Banner, but we all already knew that, didn't we? This "fake" fight proved nothing. I wanted a legit Hulk vs Thanos brawl and all I got was a BIG Jim Starlin disappointment. Horrendous issue and overall series so please don't bother wasting your money on it.
Great Article. I agree with the results. I'm a big Hulk fan, he's by far my favorite Marvel Character. I love that Stan Lee stands by his creation and I would expect no less! However, it's a hypothetical argument so here's my two cents...Superman wins because he has the ability to fly, simple as that. If Superman was dumb enough to stand and trade punches all day, he'd end up a dead. Like un-savable...no more Superman...the end. But thankfully he's not dumb enough to do that. Unlike Hulk, who in most incarnations, loses the genius intellect of Banner and has a very low IQ (yes I know about Doc Green and Joe Fixit, ect. but those are not the most commonly accepted "standard" version of Hulk), Superman has, well, "super" intelligence. He wouldn't even bother trying to hurt the Hulk. It's a waste of time because Hulk's regenerative powers are so vast. But what would hulk do if Superman just threw him in to space and left him there? We all know Hulk is stronger than anyone else physically, but what good is that if you are stuck in deep space just floating around for eternity? Hulk can and has thrown Superman into space and into other planets, but to Superman that's just a normal Wednesday afternoon. The guy fly's around to other galaxies for the fun of it. Hulk can only jump, and with no surface to jump from, he just floats out there getting angry. It's a loss, albeit a very sad and lonely loss. Only way he get's back is with the aid of someone else with a spacecraft. And if that happened Superman could just rinse and repeat the aforementioned tactic.
ReplyDeleteHow is the 1981 Superman Spider-man team up a draw and Hulk gets the win? He couldn't even move Superman and he turns back into Banner. You are not being objective here or you are a young guy who grew up in the marvel cinematic universe. I'm a fan of the Hulk grew up on TV his live action show. However I have tons of comics and have spoken with tons or writers and artist both from DC/Marvel. Who all agree that Superman out classes the Hulk. All Star Superman is quoted lifting over 200 quintillion tons with one hand for days on end. Superman Prime One Million lived in a sun and immune to Kryptonite, Cosmic Armored Superman and Superboy Prime all out match the Hulk who is only "gamma" powered. Whereas Superman benefits from the entire spectrum of radiation from the sun. Superman flew through the core of a red son, he has survived multiple supernovas to the face, he sneezed and destroyed half a GALAXY and he has flown faster than light and heard frequencies 25 light-years away from Earth through the vacuum of space. Superman has towed a 9 planet galaxy. Dude don't wish it so because you're a fan, the stories have already been written (Hulk loses every-time but one draw). The draw between the two is recent history due to Marvel cinematic universe popularity. Thats the truth, any time you want to chat I'll share what comics I have with you.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGGEm0EJkms
Show less
"A young guy who grew up on the Marvel cinematic universe"?
DeleteI'm not sure this guy knows who The Mego Stretch Hulk is? Get educated Superman fanboy because you have no idea what you're talking about.
As for the results of those match ups? It looks like a win and draw to me.
Oh I agree with everything said here, I've always said that Supes would win in a fight with The Hulk, but I'm glad you were able to cut through the bullshit and say it as it is.
ReplyDeleteSuperman is OP to hell and back. That's why he'd win.
Still makes you wonder why for such a "noble hero" as Supes why his limitless energy and speed and powers doesn't have him be a complete blue blur everywhere stopping all violence in the DCU
Some fanboys have an hard time understanding that Superman is slow and unskilled in combat and fight as fast as an untrained human.
ReplyDeleteHulk didn't get combat skills before the Planet Hulk arc.
Both are slow in combat.
I truly enjoyed this page and the analysis of the fight. I thought it was well thought out and required a good amount of research. I'm a fan of both characters, but my edge would have to go to the Hulk. Here's why... Superman is...Superman. He's not out to kill anyone. This, much like the original Doomsday story, would be his downfall. Superman has a vast amount of abilities, but the problem is, he rarely gets to go "all out" against someone and when he does, all of his other powers go in the tank. He doesn't use them because he's not used to anyone being stronger than he is during a fight. He would start off feeling stronger than the Hulk, but would soon see the Hulk get stronger and more resistant. Superman also is a living solar battery. It will wear down while the Hulk will not. He will keep getting stronger and angrier. To truly get a grasp of the power we are talking about with the Hulk, consider World Breaker Hulk. He took 2 steps and nearly destroyed the eastern seaboard of the United States. 2 steps...Not STOMPS. Imagine the level of energy and power being emanated from him if 2 steps are destroying land masses. I'm not sure Superman could do that even if he did stomp to make it happen. This is similar to Golden Age Superman's sneeze deal destroying a galaxy. Also, consider that he STILL gets stronger than that! In the Marvel/DC crossover where the fans voted for the winner, Superman beat "the Professor" not the Hulk. There was not madder I get the stronger I get and Superman barely beat him.
ReplyDeleteSuperman is an extremely overpowered superhero and it causes many different issues. If he were that powerful, there would never be any crime on the planet as he would see it and end it by using his super speed. He routinely doesn't use his vast array of powers so just because people WANT him to use them so he won't lose, doesn't jibe with the way the character actually is in every fight. I can go on, but I don't think there is a need to.
Hulk would be on par in strength and durability in a fight with the edge in that factor going to Hulk as the match continues. Superman may be faster but Hulk has faced many superman types in Marvel and won and has speed which increases as well. However I'd still give the edge of speed to Superman with Superman having the advantage of heat vision.
ReplyDeleteIn short Superman would most likely win in a short fight but if its long term Hulk wins. However its revealed Hulk can reach higher levels quicker if Banner doesn't hold him back. Which changes the dynamic of this famous debate now. So one could argue Hulk could easily access World Breaker Hulk or close to beat Superman which I most likely see a possibility now given how Hulk has been written in today's comics
This is a perfect analysis on the subject. I must commend the author, John the Mego Stretch Hulk.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little baffled why the Superman fanboys are complaining so much about the Hulk's legit victory over Pre-Crisis Superman from the treasury? They say the Hulk caught him by surprise, that Superman wasn't knocked out, this and that, whatever! John, states exactly what happens in his discription and even in his wrap up at the end. And he states that both of their victories over the other are controversial due to the Hulk losing by a popularity vote.
Why don't some of you fanboys point that out? What this tells me is that a lot of you don't even bother to read the entire article. You go to the parts you want, skim over everything else and complain and post your reasons. READ THE ARTICLE AND THEN COMMENT!!!!
Superman did lose that match up, which John even states is a round within the fight, if you've read the meaning which I'm sure you didn't. And he even states it was by a surprise attack! So why are you guys complaining? That's exactly what happened? When Superman comes back nobody wins! Supes stood there and took the Hulk's punches as while the Hulk got stronger and then the fight stopped. The Hulk is standing there and so isn't Superman, the fight is over. So who won that? Nobody!! Superman fanboys can speculate whatever they want but that fight ended with the Hulk taking the first round and Both fought to a stalemate in the second. What is all the deception or questions or controversy? I don't get it?
This is coming from someone who doesn't really care about either character, I'm more of a Daredevil fan. But I can say withou a doubt that fanboys today and Superman purists are some of the worse in the industry.
Immortal Hulk would easily smash Superman today. And does anybody care about Superman? His comic can't be given away.
ReplyDeleteWhen the Hulk knocked out Pre-Crisis Superman, it was only because it was a sucker punch!!
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the sucker punch. If I run up and punch you in the face, but I think you're a pacifist, then I'm not *expecting* you to punch me back. If you punch me back, then no, you didn't sucker punch me. And not one person that saw the entire thing happen would say you sucker punched me.
DeleteI prefer the definition from Merriam-Webster that I attached a screen-shot of. The "without apparent provocation" is what seals it. Clearly, the Hulk was provoked, and he was returning fire. Whether or not Superman expected it, or was thinking about stuff, is irrelevant. Now, if Superman was not in a fight, his back was turned and he was helping an old lady cross the street and the Hulk silently crept up behind him and punched him, then, yes, that would be a sucker punch.
In looking at both examples, do you see how defining a sucker punch solely with the recipient not expecting it is problematic? However, when you define it as “without provocation” it now makes the two examples quite different.
By your definition, then every punch that Superman threw was a sucker punch, as the Hulk was not expecting to be attacked (at least the initial attack). The Hulk had this annoying buzzing going around his face--if anything, he would expect to be helped, not attacked. How many scores of issues have shown the Hulk just hanging out...wanting to be left alone...not causing any damage at all, and along comes a "good guy" or team of good guys and attacks him? In these instances, the Hulk would not be expecting to be attacked--he was just sitting by himself. There have been many times when the Hulk didn't understand why he was being attacked (meaning he could not have anticipated it). But how preposterous would it be for Hulk fans--The Church--to try to cry "sucker punch" for the majority of his fights? About as obnoxious as Superman fans have been declaring this a sucker punch.
And let’s be honest—if the INTENT of the author was to show that the Hulk was going to fight dirty and sucker punch Superman, then that was a very weak way to go about showing it. There are many more ways to clearly show the reader that Superman was the victim of an unprovoked sneak attack.
So Superman was looking at the Hulk and talking to him. Superman is telling the Hulk not to move, so he thinks he’s conscious. We see the Hulk's RIGHT hand open, with motion lines around it (meaning his hand was moving). As a matter of fact, it is the ONLY part of the Hulk that is visible, as the rest of his body is buried underneath concrete rubble. So, in order for Superman to be looking at the Hulk, he would have to be looking at his hand. The next panel, the Hulk's RIGHT hand is now in a fist, moving upward. So, for a man in which life moves at super slow motion, and whose hearing is so attuned he can "detect an ant's footsteps 100 miles away," (according to Lois Lane) and heard tremors in Italy from a flight to Switzerland, he would clearly have been able to see the Hulk make a fist. Even if he didn't see it, he would have to hear the Hulk make a fist--hear the blood rush into his hand...hear the muscles tense. Heck, even if he didn't hear any of that, he would have to see and hear the concrete rubble shift and move as the Hulk reared back to punch him (unless of course one would argue that the Hulk did not have to rear back his arm, but that would mean the Hulk KO'ed Pre-Crisis Superman without much momentum/speed/power in his arm. Yikes. Not a good answer for Super-Fans. I personally think the Hulk *had* to rear back his arm, because if it was already cocked back, then would wouldn't only see his hand coming out of the rubble--you would see his chest, head, etc. since his right hand was exposed).
�� Great!!!! I completely agree. While Hulk is Physically stronger than Superman, he got other powers which will grant him the win. And also, Can you do Superman vs Thor!!! Please? If only Possible.
ReplyDeleteThe treasury fight was a win? That is very generous on your part.
ReplyDelete