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Tuesday, September 20, 2011

HULK VS THOR

HULK VS THOR

THE DEFINITIVE WRITE UP ON MARVEL'S MOST LEGENDARY AND MOST CONTROVERSIAL SLUGFEST
By
John “THE MEGO STRETCH HULK” Cimino


Dedicated to my love for both characters and the fanboys who can't get enough!


Of all the tremendous battles, slugfests and rivalries that have occurred in a Marvel Comic over the years, very few have been more anticipated or in more demand as “Hulk vs Thor”. Arguably the two strongest and most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe, the Hulk and Thor will never be far from a collision course. They have at times put down their fists and hammer to team up or to make a truce but it never lasts. With their big egos and big mouths they are always just a word-balloon away for some city-leveling fun. It’s the pay-per-view main event of the Marvel mythos, with no wide-screen (or comic book) big enough to capture the action. After all the comics, movies, cartoons and toys that has captivated the mass media of all ages, this rivalry has become (without a doubt) the most popular fight in all of comics history. And for all its glory and excitement, probably no other match up stems as much controversy.

Yes, debating if one fictional character can beat another is taken very seriously between comic collecting fanboys and it has been since the creation of Superman back in 1938. But when it comes to the fanboys with the most “passion” Hulk fans (or members of the Church of Hulk) and Thor fans (also known as Thorites) seem to have some of the loudest voices. And if you put these loud and passionate voices together in an argument about who should really win in a fight between the Hulk and Thor, you get a thunder clap louder and more destructive than anything those two characters could ever muster up. Yes my fellow readers, the Hulk fighting Thor is more than just a mega-ongoing-endless-Marvel-punch-up-tradition, it’s a mega-ongoing-endless-immortal-debate.
Everyone stands back as the two big-boys get ready to play...and the readers love it!

To understand why there is such controversy between the two characters, we need to look into the past and see the evolution of each hero and the dynamic between them. As time went on many changes occurred and sometimes not always for the better.

The Hulk first appeared in The Incredible Hulk #1 (1962) created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. The Hulk is cast as the emotional and impulsive alter ego of the withdrawn and reserved physicist Dr. Bruce Banner. The Hulk appears shortly after Banner is accidentally exposed to mega doses of gamma rays from the blast of a test detonation of a Gamma Bomb (or G-Bomb) he invented. Subsequently, Banner will involuntarily transform into a giant, raging, humanoid monster of great strength, during times of anger, fear or stress thus leading to extreme complications in his life.


A few months later came the great Thunder God, Thor first appearing in Journey Into Mystery #83 (1962) and was created by Stan Lee, Larry Lieber and Jack Kirby. While having the strongest character on Earth with the Hulk, Stan wanted to go even further. He stated: 

"How do you make someone stronger than the strongest person? It finally came to me: Don't make him human — make him a god. I decided readers were already pretty familiar with the Greek and Roman gods. It might be fun to delve into the old Norse legends... Besides, I pictured Norse gods looking like Vikings of old, with the flowing beards, horned helmets, and battle clubs.”


Alas, Thor and the Hulk enter into the Marvel Universe and two legends are born.

Thor and the Hulk first appeared together in Avengers #1 (1963) and formed this super-team with Iron man, Ant-Man and Wasp. But in the next issue at the first Avengers meeting, the brash Thunder God is appalled by the Hulk’s appearance and lets the green brute know about it. This insult will forever change the course of the Marvel Universe as the Hulk would continually hold a grudge against the pompous Thunder God. The Hulk would also discover how much all the other Avengers feared and mistrusted him so he would shortly quit the team (and battle them over and over throughout the years). 


Thor starts to talk trash about the way the Hulk looks and starts the immortal feud.


The first real fight between the Hulk and Thor takes place in Avengers #3 (1964) during their second match up of the issue when the Hulk teams up with the Sub-Mariner and battles the Avengers (in their first match up the Avengers were just trying to capture the Hulk and didn’t want to really hurt him). But now all bets were off and eventually the Hulk and Namor struggle in their first punch up with Thor. The Thunder God is clearly holding his own as the two savages try to keep pace with him. The Hulk and Namor seemed to be no match for the Thunder God as even the Hulk states that Subby is nuts for trying to fight him alone. It seemed clear to me that Thor was the Super-Heavyweight Champion of Marvel Comics and this altercation proved it.

It takes both The Hulk and The Sub-Mariner to go with Thor at  the beginning of the Marvel Universe.

After this Marvel started gaining more popularity in the comics world and their heroes were turning into future stars of the industry with Spider-man, the Fantastic Four and The Hulk leading the way. The big question of the day by fanboys was if the Thing could beat the Hulk? And these letters flooded the Marvel offices constantly. In response to the Hulk and the Thing’s first inconclusive fight in Fantastic Four #12 (1962), Stan Lee and Jack Kirby gave fans the first real-deal-major-scope-punch-up-ever with “Hulk vs Thing" in the Battle of the Century!” in Fantastic Four #25 (1964)! This answered the question of who the stronger was as the Hulk pounded on the street-tough Thing. So a new question emerged by fanboys, “Who is stronger, The Hulk or The Mighty Thor?” Stan Lee being the genius editor that he is gave the fans just that in Journey into Mystery #112 (1965), but the fight itself proved inconclusive with the now much more popular Hulk (he was a college mascot at this time and even voted by readers in Esquire magazine as the number 27th revolutionary icon of college goers in 1965) saving face while dropping Thor down a notch as both characters now were “physical equals.” And why not, it sold a ton more comics and kept the fans coming back for more. And we did...


Esquire magazine (Sept. 1965) gives Marvel Comics its very first taste of national exposure. In this issue, college students voted to see who were the 28 Revolutionary Icons that meant the most to them. Incredibly, the Hulk came in at #27 and Spider-man at #28. This was undeniable proof on just how beloved and popular the Hulk truly was to the youth of America!


There can be no more doubt as Thor and the Hulk are now established as "physical equals" as told in this letter during Marvel's Silver Age.

In my mind, this was the first blow to the Thor mythos because he was created to be the strongest character and now he was one of the strongest. Because as popular as the Thunder God was, he just wasn't as popular as the Hulk. But in truth, it really wasn't that bad for Thor. He would carry the torch as the self-chosen protector of Earth and was considered quite possibly the most respected superhero in the Marvel Universe. He had the most powerful weapon around with his war-hammer Mjolnir, he scared the bejeezus out of the Silver Surfer with his arsenal of power in Silver Surfer #4 (1969) and was always just as strong as the Hulk as shown in Defenders #10 (1973) with their 90 minute test of strength. And during the middle of the 70's, Thor was being written as to be "always holding back his full strength because he didn't want to kill anybody." Yes, at this time Thor was a true god in every sense of the word.

Thor was all powerful against the Silver Surfer in this classic!

In the 80’s Walter Simonson began writing Thor and brought a whole new legend to the character. These were considered some of the best Thor stories ever published even though Simonson’s interpretation of The Thunder God was nowhere near as powerful as the Lee and Kirby version of the 60's. During this time, Thor appeared as the superhero little Sara Anderson was obsessed with in the movie comedy, Adventures in Babysitting (1987). But as time went on and Simonson left writing, so did the Thunder God’s popularity. When The Mighty Thor #385 (1987) hit the shelves, more controversy hit the mythos of “Hulk vs Thor” because now it became established that Thor needed Mjolnir to keep on par with the brute in a toe-to-toe battle. And if that wasn't enough, Thor’s first live-television appearance made its debut on The Return of the Incredible Hulk (1988) and Thor get’s pounded on by the “Lou Ferrigno” Hulk. With the fame of Spider-man, the X-men and the Hulk flying high into the mainstream media, Thor was but an afterthought and only considered a “B” level hero.

The 90’s into the 2000's saw more downgrades to Thor in popularity. It got so bad that Thor was no longer starring in his own comic as Eric Masterson took up the mantel of Thor and would later become known as Thunderstrike (the real Thor eventually returned but sales never increased). When the “Heroes Reborn Universe” rebooted all the Marvel Heroes titles, Thor never got his own series and would just be a supporting character in the Avengers issues. Finally, after two years when the heroes returned back into the regular Marvel Universe, Thor got his own title back but it eventually got canceled after seven years. With lagging popularity also comes lagging respect and power to the character himself. Now Thor was no longer considered bullet proof (writer Kurt Busiek decided to make this official and thank god writer J. Michael Straczynski fixed this nonsense years later), he even freely admits that the Hulk is physically stronger than him in The Incredible Hulk Annual 2001, The Ultimates comic comes into prominence and becomes wildly popular and tremendously influential (even though it’s not in the current continuity) and this version of Thor will take a beating against the sex-crazed Hulk in The Ultimates #5 (2002) among others and never truly becomes a super-heavyweight. The real Marvel Universe Thor will take his share of embarrassing defeats as well including a big loss to DC's Superman in the highly anticipated Avengers/JLA #2 (2003) ending that debate thanks to writer Mr. Busiek once again and a few years later to 2nd rate Hulk-clone, the Red Hulk no less in Hulk #5 (2008). Thank the comic gods that Thor rectified that defeat later on and pounded on the Rulk to avenge his defeat.

Thor taking a beating from the lame Red Hulk was a travesty. Let's all thank the gods Thor got that one back and redeemed himself against this pathetic Hulk-clone loser.

But if that wasn't enough, Thor would prove to be a punching bag to the real Hulk in other forms of media. Animated features will come out; The Ultimate Avengers DVD (2006) where the Hulk totally knocks out Thor and then climaxing in the Hulk vs Thor DVD (2009) where the Hulk actually kills the Thunder God in a huge brawl. Thor fans tried to save face by saying these fights weren’t in regular comic continuity so they didn't count. Well, that was until they got Hulk: Let The Battle Begin #1 (2010) where the Hulk finally defeats Thor conclusively in a fight and it was just another bitter pill for Thor fans to swallow (I totally feel their angst). So with this, the final nail was put in the Marvel mythos of “Hulk vs Thor.”

Could Thor ever recover?

Yes, like in true Thor fashion, he rises again from the dregs of defeat in the most unexpected way possible…a movie. In the summer of 2011 everyone will witness Thor and it will gross an incredible $448,150,968 worldwide (making more than any Hulk movie ever did) and rocketing The Thunder God right into the pantheon of the most famous superheroes of all! This was a well needed victory for Thor who could now be classed as an “A” level hero!

So how will this new surge in popularity help Thor out in his continued rivalry with the Hulk? In a time where Superhero blockbusters are all the rage at the movie theater, how could the Hulk and Thor not meet up in a clash of the ages for all the world to see? On May 4th of 2012 Marvel's The Avengers is released and becomes one of the top 3 highest grossing films of all time. Plus it showcased the first superhero vs superhero battles ever with "Hulk vs Thor" being the most anticipated and closely viewed. 

Today this rivalry has entered into the mainstream and has become the most popular superhero match up ever in comics! And regardless of what any fanboy thinks of it, you just gotta love this fight because now it's bigger than all of us. Ladies and gentlemen, I give to you the Definitive write up of...The Incredible Hulk versus The Mighty Thor!!!

Even Stan Lee himself has to separate (Thor actor) Chris Helmsworth and (Hulk actor) Lou Ferrigno before a major slugfest ensues. "Hulk vs Thor" is without question, the greatest rivalry in comics.

But before we get to the action, let's see the combatants...



TALE OF THE TAPE


Name: Hulk

Height: 5’9 ½” (Banner), 7’ (Hulk)

Weight: 128lbs (Banner), 1,040lbs (Hulk)

Real Name: Robert Bruce Banner

Origins: Gamma bomb explosion at Desert Base New Mexico

Home Base: Earth

Nicknames: Green Goliath, Green-Skinned Goliath, Jade Jaws, Annihilator, Captain Universe, Joe Fixit, Mr. Fixit, Mechano, Green Scar, Jade Giant, The Jolly Green Giant, Green King, Holku, Green One, Eye of Rage, Eye of Anger, Harkanon, Haarg, Once-Savage, Two Minds, Professor, War, Maestro, Two-Hands, Greenskin, Gray Goliath, Mighty Bob, Anti-Hulk, Friday, Green Golem, Golem, Man-Monster, World-Breaker, Sakaarson, Nul: Breaker of Worlds, The Most Powerful Being on Earth, The Strongest One There Is 

Powers: Possesses the potential for near-limitless levels of vast superhuman strength ranging beyond the limits of virtually any other known humanoid being, depending directly on his emotional state, particularly his anger. He is extremely resistant to physical damage, psychic assaults, temperature extremes, and is completely immune to disease and poisons. He can breathe underwater, survive unprotected in space, and when injured, possesses superhuman healing, enabling him to regenerate body tissue (including internal organs) within minutes to seconds. His aging is also slowed, or may have ceased altogether, due to these regenerative properties of his gamma ray irradiated cells. His powerful legs allow him to cover about 3 miles in a single bound, but he has been known to leap into lower Earth orbit or even across continents when angry. Besides great strength, his durability, healing, endurance, and possibly speed, likewise also increase in relation to his anger levels. He can maintain this peak output for hours on end and still continue to grow even more powerful as his adrenaline levels continue to increase with no apparent limit. Unrelated to his physical abilities, he can see astral (spirit) forms normally invisible to the naked eye and can locate his place of birth; Desert Base New Mexico no matter where he is in the world via psychic bond. As Bruce Banner, he is considered one of the greatest minds on Earth. He is the foremost expert on Gamma Radiation and has developed expertise in the fields of Biology, Chemistry, Engineering, Physiology, and has a PhD in Nuclear Physics.

Favorite Expressions: “Hulk Smash!”, “Hulk is the Strongest One There is!”, "BAH!", “Nothing Can Stop Hulk!”, "The Madder Hulk gets, the Stronger Hulk gets!", “Don’t make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I’m angry.”

Incarnations: I listed the “Savage” Hulk’s stats up above because it is generally considered that this Hulk persona is the most popular and most powerful of all the incarnations. But his height, weight and powers varies to a degree depending on his current incarnation. Within each “Hulk vs Thor” comic description listed in “The Slugfest” section, I included which incarnation of the Hulk was present for that fight. To understand this and to see some of the other strengths and weakness each incarnation has click on the link below.




Name: Thor

Height: 6’6”

Weight: 640lbs

Real Name: Thor Odinson

Origins: Born in a cave in Norway, Odin (father), Gaea (mother)

Home Base: Asgard

Nicknames: The God of Thunder, The Prince of Asgard, Goldilocks, The Thunderer, The Blondhair, The Son of Odin, Vingthor the Hurler, Longbeard’s Son, Hrodr’s Foeman, Veur, Hloriddi, Donar, Jormungand’s Fear, The Warrior-Born, Long-hair, The Champion of Asgard, The Greatest Warrior in all of Mythology

Powers: Superhuman strength, durability, stamina and mental fortitude greater than those of all other Asgardian Gods, while being the physically strongest of the Asgardians, if the battle pressed, he can enter into a state known as the "Warrior's Madness" ("berserkergang" in Norwegian) which will temporarily raise his strength and stamina tenfold, although in this state he will attack friend and foe alike. As a true Asgardian God he possesses unearthly senses, regeneration (with the aid of Mjolnir), self-sustenance, immunity to disease, resistance to some forms of magic, longevity (he is not truly immortal but relies upon periodic consumption of the Golden Apples of Idunn to sustain his extended lifespan, which to date has lasted many millennia) and he can survive in the vacuum of space unaided for a brief period of time. As the son of the Earth Goddess Gaea he has also shown to have some control over the Earth. He has thousands of years of training in Asgardian arts of war, he is highly skilled in hand-to-hand combat, proficient with most Asgardian weaponry, highly skilled in the use of the war-hammer, sword and mace.

Weapons: Mjolnir; magical war-hammer made from virtually indestructible uru metal grants weather manipulation, energy projection and absorption, time manipulation, dimensional travel, electrical manipulation, matter manipulation and the most powerful of Thor's offensives, the God Blast (which taps into Thor's life force), the Thermo-blast and the Anti-Force (which counteracts another force). It can also be used to sense out the auras of evil presence. By throwing Mjolnir in the desired direction and then holding on to the handle's leather loop, Thor can fly at supersonic speeds in Earth's atmosphere and travel faster than light in space. Mjolnir obeys Thor's commands as though it was alive and if Thor's will is strong enough, the hammer can pass through nearly any barrier to reach him should he so desire.

Favorite Expressions: Way too many pseudo-Shakespearean quotes to choose from. Thor always makes slightly long-winded speeches during combat.



THE SLUGFESTS























The comics listed in this section is each time Hulk and Thor have squared off, had words and fought each other in actual official Marvel continuity. I will also explain each encounter in detail. Unfortunately, all fights and situations are not always so clear cut and I've tried my very best to be fair, objective and unbiased about the outcome of each battle. A fight will only result in a "WIN" if the losing character is rendered unconscious, teleported away against their will or immobilized in such a fashion that they are only freed by the other combatant or an ally. There may even be cases when a character gets a victory due to interference of their teammates, partners, etc. This may not be a definitive "WIN" but it will still be tallied against the losing opponent and explained so. When a character gets an "EDGE" result, they had the advantage at the end of the fight but the opponent may still be conscious or fighting on, so it will not be tallied against him. And when a match up gets a "NONE" result, there was no way a logical result could be given in that confrontation or situation from the two characters facing off. This result can occur for a number of reasons and will be explained in the text. At the end, I tallied up the totals so you can come to your own conclusions and be the judge to see who holds the overall edge in this legendary match up. Since there is so much debating in the "Hulk vs Thor" match up, I spoke with a few creators to shed some light on the more controversial issues and hopefully it will clear up some of the arguments that they spark off.





THE AVENGERS #2 (1964)
At the very first Avengers meeting the “Gravage” Hulk and Thor face off. Thor is appalled on how the Hulk looks and tells him so. The Hulk will then tell Iron Man to get Thor out of his face or he'll "boot him up to Asgard for good" and so begins this immortal feud. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 1 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0




THE AVENGERS #3 (1964)
The Avengers try to capture the “Gravage” Hulk. As the brute and the Thunder God engage on top of a train, the Hulk will out maneuver Thor and tie him up with some steel cable. Before Thor can free himself, the Hulk has already escaped the rest of the Avengers in the desert. They decide not to pull their punches next time. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 2 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0

As The Avengers battle the Hulk and the Sub-Mariner, Namor confronts Thor and challenges him. The Hulk will storm out of the shadows and also attack the Thunder God helping Namor out. But in the heat of the struggle the Hulk will fail to wrestle Mjolnir from Thor's grasp and then unexpectedly change back into Bruce Banner and run off leaving a dehydrating and helpless Prince Namor all alone against the team. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 3 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



FANTASTIC FOUR #26 (1964)
So how did Stan Lee and Jack Kirby follow up the biggest fight in comics history with "Hulk vs Thing" in Fantastic Four #25? They threw in the Avengers and let the battle become even bigger! Fantastic Four #26 concludes the epic two-part saga of the Hulk fighting the Thing (as well as against Thor and everyone else). This issue will solidify the Hulk as the first and definitive "team-buster" of the Marvel Universe. This is more absolute greatness that made the Marvel Silver Age the greatest era ever in comics!

Searching for Rick Jones who the “Gravage” Hulk thinks has betrayed him; the brute then tackles both the entire Avengers and Fantastic Four teams including Thor. As the Hulk plows through the heroes, Thor will throw his hammer at the brute but miss. With all the heroes getting in each others way, the Hulk leaps away with Rick Jones escaping them. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 4 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0

Again Thor takes on the Hulk with the help of the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. But during the entire battle, Thor and the Hulk never really get at each other. In the end, the Hulk escapes but Rick Jones is saved. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 5 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0




THE AVENGERS #5 (1964)
While Thor and the Avengers attempt to stop the growth of the World Stone, the (Gravage) Hulk shows up and battles them. While Thor tells his teammates to step back and let him end the fight with his enchanted hammer, the Witch Doctor of the Lava Men uses his radio-active rod to change Thor back into Don Blake. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 6 HULK: 0 - THOR: 0



JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #112 (1965)
Is there any surprise that this issue opens up with Hulk and Thor fanboys arguing over who the real champion of the Marvel Universe is? And in this issue all fans got their wish with the first real-deal-all-out legendary brawl of “Hulk vs Thor!” This punch up is what I also consider to be an absolute mastery of story telling and pacing brought to you by the masters, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. It's simply one of the greatest slugfests ever to grace a comic book.

Thor retells the tale to a bunch of teenagers of the fight he had with the “Gravage” Hulk back in Avengers #3 (when they were both off panel). They engaged in a tremendous war to see who the stronger was. Thor asked Odin to take away the enchantment of Mjolnir for 5 minutes so he could challenge the Hulk in hand-to-hand combat. But as this happened, the Hulk never took his eyes off the hammer and wanted to destroy it. They went back and forth with both combatants claiming their superiority over the other. The Hulk eventually throws Thor against the underground cavern wall causing an avalanche separating them. Soon the Hulk digs himself out and would find Thor fighting the Sub-Mariner and the rest of this fight continues back in Avengers #3. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 7 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



SUB-MARINER #35 (1971)
The “Savage” Hulk reluctantly teams up with the Sub-Mariner and the Silver Surfer and battles it out with the Avengers. The Hulk and Thor square off in an intense scrap. At the end, the Hulk manages to separate Thor from his hammer and unsuccessful tries to lift it. Thor is now worried that he will change back to Dr. Donald Blake in 1 minute and be helpless against the brute. Just then the United Nations attack and distracts the Hulk from his attempt opening him up for Thor to punch him and retrieve Mjolnir. At that moment both teams put away their grudges and will join forces to stop the U.N. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 8 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



DEFENDERS #10 (1973)
This issue sparks a lot of controversy due to the “90 minute test of strength” The Hulk and Thor have in this fight. So I personally asked Defender’s writer Steve Englehart about it in 2011 and he wrote me this:

I just found them both to have a claim on "strongest thing around," and couldn't decide for myself who was stronger, so I went with "not proven."

When the Defenders and the Avengers clash for pieces of the Evil Eye in individual encounters, it is no surprise that the “Savage” Hulk and Thor (the two true “royal” heavyweights on each team) pair up for a legendary rumble. The whole city suffers as these two have no trouble letting their big egos and fists do the talking for them. When their team members find out that they are fighting, they all know they have to put a stop to it before they destroy the entire city. Dr. Strange will finally stop the two titans who have been locked in a test of strength and grappling for over 90 minutes. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 9 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #255 (1980)
Thor meets up with the “Savage” Hulk and tries to calm him down but unfortunately the Hulk wants to fight! They brawl until the Hulk takes a boxcar and slams it on top of Thor. As it takes The Son of Odin some time to dig himself out from the wreckage, the Hulk leaps away thinking he was finished. Now fearing that the city is imperiled, Thor will fly on after him. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 10 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0

Thor chases the Hulk into the city and saves a helpless victim who the Hulk throws at him. Now Thor is ready to fight and they brawl it out in the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. Eventually after some major destruction Thor realizes they have to stop the fight or people could die. As Thor was surveying the damage he notices that the tunnel is collapsing, the Hulk will take this opportunity to punch Thor and separating him from his hammer. As The Thunderer will get up and try to hold up the tunnel, the Hulk tries to unsuccessfully lift Mjolnir again. But when the 1 minute time limit is exceeded, the Hulk is then holding a walking stick and realizes that Thor has turned into Dr. Donald Blake. As the Hulk grabs Blake and has him at his mercy, he will tell the Hulk that he is Bruce Banner. The Hulk thinks he’s crazy and throws Blake and the stick to the ground and leaps away. Blake will turn back into Thor and help out the citizens of New York losing the Hulk in the process. RESULT: EDGE HULK (Even though Thor did the heroic thing to forget about his hammer and support the tunnel, he turned back into Donald Blake and was totally at the Hulk’s mercy. This gave the Hulk a definite “edge” in this fight but not a definitive “win”.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 11 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #284 (1983)
The Hulk (with Banner’s brain) tries to convince a brainwashed Thor about the Leader and his control over him. Thor will then clobber the Hulk with Mjolnir and make some attacks but will quickly come back to his senses. They will then go and save their other allies that are under the Leader’s influence. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 12 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #300 (1984)
As the “Mindless” Hulk is destroying New York, the world’s heroes and Police Forces will try to stop him to no avail. The man-monster is soon met up with the last line of defense, the Avengers! The Hulk beats all the members of the team until Thor finally steps in and tells them all to stand back as only he has the power that can put an end to the beast’s path of destruction. They have a tremendous fight until Dr. Strange steps in and banishes the Hulk to another dimension. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 13 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



THE MIGHTY THOR #385 (1987)
This issue represents the first of many major controversial confrontations between the two. Before this encounter it was always thought of as the Hulk and Thor being physical equals. But after this fight we see a glimpse of the Hulk’s superiority in strength, durability and endurance especially when Thor was without the aid of Mjolnir.

In the fight itself the “Savage” Hulk and Thor clash as The Thunderer tries to calm the Hulk down from wrecking the city and the Green Goliath just wants to fight. Thor get’s the better of the struggle early on by using Mjolnir to his advantage. But now the Hulk wants Thor to fight him without the aide of his hammer to see who is truly the stronger and will eventually grab a helpless female as a hostage to get his wish. Thor reluctantly does toss Mjolnir away and the Hulk attacks with reckless abandon starting up a major slugfest that causes untold of damage to the city. Thor contemplates fleeing just to save the city and its people but his ego gets the better of him as he attacks again. Little by little though, the Hulk continues his relentless, vicious assault to show his superiority as Thor begins to slow down with his body now showing the effects of the fight (he will even question if the Hulk has any limits to his strength). But being a warrior-born, full of pride, Thor will attack again and continue to get pounded unmercifully with the Hulk screaming at him to give up. As Mjolnir finally returns to Thor’s hand, the Hulk stops his assault because he felt that he proved his point; he was able to pound on Thor and prove he was the stronger when Thor didn’t have his hammer to help him out. Thor angered by this says he’ll fight the Hulk again without the weapon but the Hulk leaps away saying he isn’t angry anymore and will crush Thor next time. Thor looks around at all the damage the fight has caused and realized he failed the people of Earth on this day just to fuel his ego and pride. RESULT: EDGE HULK (Thor’s face and body looked like a mess after this fight, as the Hulk was still fresh and without a mark on him. It was not a definitive “win” for the Hulk because Thor was still standing, but you have to score the Hulk with an “edge” due to his absolute pummeling of Thor in the end.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 14 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



INFINITY CRUSADE #4 (1993)
A brainwashed Thor takes on both The “Professor” Hulk and “Gem Powered” Drax the Destroyer in space. While Thor and Drax are able to fly, the Hulk cannot as he is aided by a mini-propulsion unit. In the short struggle, the Hulk is knocked back by Thor and his propulsion unit is damaged so he cannot stop himself from drifting back to Earth. The Hulk will call out for Drax to help him but Drax does not hear him as he is locked up with Thor in a fierce battle. RESULT: EDGE THOR (While the fight was short lived, Thor’s attack nullifies the Hulk and sends him back toward Earth. Not a definitive “win” by any means but Thor got the ‘edge” in this match up with the Hulk because he was removed from the fight.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 15 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



THE MIGHTY THOR #489 (1995)
The “Professor” Hulk shows up volunteering to take Thor out of Hel by any means necessary. Soon they struggle back and forth in another brawl, but now the Hulk must control his anger or he will change into a “savage” Bruce Banner (which is the Savage Hulk’s mind in Bruce Banner’s body). But even with this disadvantage, the Hulk can still go toe-to-toe with Thor causing major damage in their wake. To Thor's credit he was not really trying to win this fight either as both were more or less focused on causing as much damage as possible. Eventually Kurse will step in and volunteer to replace Thor in Hel, which Hela accepts since it will prevent further destruction to her domain. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 16 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #440 (1996)
This fight has some controversy because in the previous issue Thor stated he has always held back when he fought the Hulk. But now he would not and this would be their final battle as he would fight the Hulk on even terms with his dreaded “warrior's madness,” which enhances his strength 10 fold. Yes, Thor fought the Hulk on his terms, but no, he never held back in his past fights with the Hulk. Thor has always been very proud and brash especially with his frustrations with the Hulk and this is just another example of it.

The “Young Maestro” Hulk meets up with Thor in Antarctica for a final battle! They both fight each other with raging fury with Thor even entering into his“warrior's madness” looking to kill the Hulk. The U.S. Army will end this intense brawl when they launch a nuke to kill both combatants. The Hulk shows some heart for Thor as he sees the missile coming and punches the crazed Thunder God miles from the explosion to save him. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 17 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



HEROES REBORN: THE RETURN #1 (1997)
The “Heroes Reborn” Hulk is seen locked in combat with Thor and the Thing! The fight seems to be brutal as Thor and Thing talk about how hard it is to be slugging it out with the Green Goliath. This is a tough scrap to judge because only a panel is shown of the fight itself. Later we learn that the Hulk got away when Thing is talking about the incident to the Fantastic Four but the reader never actually sees it. RESULT: UNKNOWN (This fight could well be listed as a “draw” but since the ending of the fight is never seen it is impossible to judge.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 18 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



HEROES REBORN: THE RETURN #2 (1997)
The “Heroes Reborn” Hulk faces off against Thor for a rematch from the previous issue. But before they can fight, both combatants are separated by an earthquake that spews out magma. Thor will save some pedestrians as the Hulk leaps away. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 19 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0



THE INCREDIBLE HULK ANNUAL (2001)
While the “Savage” Hulk attacks the Army, Thor will attack the brute and the battle begins! The Hulk will tell Thor that his hammer is what makes him strong and he needs it to fight him. Thor refuses to put his weapon away and says that he will use all the powers at his disposal to stop the Hulk’s rages once and for all (it should also be noted that Thor says that the Hulk is the most powerful foe he has ever faced). They battle back and forth until Thor teleports them to another dimension so innocents won’t be hurt in their conflict. When they get there the Hulk will take Thor and hurl him into a mountain, as Thor rises an avalanche falls on him. It took the Thunder God a long time to dig out, so the Hulk leapt away. RESULT: EDGE HULK (This fight is a little tricky to judge as Thor took a very long time to dig himself out from the rubble and looked very hurt due to it. It could be listed as a “win” for the Hulk but it’s impossible to tell if Thor was unconscious or not by the avalanche so I could only give the Hulk the “edge”. Either way, Thor continued his search for the Hulk despite his pain like the proud warrior he is.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 20 HULK: 0 – THOR: 0

After the Hulk makes short work of a bunch of monsters in this dimension, Thor finds him and wants to take the Hulk back to Earth. The Hulk, of course, refuses and attacks starting up the slugfest again. They go back and forth until Thor uses a sneak attack with a lightning bolt he calls down from the sky to hit the Hulk in the back and gets the “KO”. Thor will now take the Hulk’s limp body and open up a portal to take the Green Goliath back to Earth. RESULT: WIN THOR

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 21 HULK: 0 – THOR: 1

Thor will now carry the Hulk off through dimensions but the brute recovers and attacks him. The attack makes the Hulk land on a world where he forgets about his fight with Thor and begins playing with some of the inhabitants. He would soon change back into Bruce Banner and he will pass out due to the lack of air. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 22 HULK: 0 – THOR: 1

While Bruce Banner is now being carried off by Thor and brought back to Earth, he soon quickly changes back into the Hulk and attacks! The Hulk’s assault takes Thor completely by surprise and the brute savagely pounds him into the ground! With Thor now battered, bloodied and knocked out, the Hulk turns and walks away. RESULT: WIN HULK

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 23 HULK: 1 – THOR: 1

But Thor’s indomitable fighting spirit carries him through as he retrieves Mjolnir and slowly, painfully rises once again to attack the Hulk. The Hulk turns and is shocked to see Thor ready to renew the fight once more. Thor claims that the Hulk has more raw strength at his disposal than any other living being including himself but he does not possess the power of a god! Now Thor calls upon a mighty storm that manages to cause more destruction to their surroundings than hurt the Hulk. Innocents were now in danger as the Hulk saves a few and leaps away. Thor would soon see the errors of his ways knowing that his ego, pride and temper got the better of him again. It should be noted that this story revealed that the Hulk was the stronger of the two but Thor was the more powerful. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 24 HULK: 1 – THOR: 1



HULK: LET THE BATTLE BEGIN #1 (2010)
This is possibly the most controversial “Hulk vs Thor” comic ever made due to the fact that there was a definitive winner thus ending the mythos of the rivalry. Plus there are also claims of non-continuity or even semi-continuity. So I personally spoke with writer Jesse “Blaze” Snider in 2010 and he told me the story is more of an “untold” tale of the Hulk and Thor's past. And regardless of what people think, he is a fan of both characters. Read here for more info on this story:


Well there you have it, totally official Marvel cannon. Some Thor fans may still discredit this but I don't and I love Thor, so here it is. Take it as you will fanboys...

Bruce Banner goes back and forth remembering The “Savage” Hulk’s big confrontation with the Wrecking Crew and The Mighty Thor! Thor will hit the Hulk with a lightning bolt to get his attention to stop his beat down of the Wrecking Crew and from causing more damage to Mount Rushmore. The Hulk attacks and they have another massive slugfest with Thor pounding and bloodying up the Hulk with tremendous blows from Mjolnir! But the Hulk rages, heals and then grabs Thor’s hand (that is holding Mjolnir) and proceeds to pound The Thunderer with his own weapon! This bloodies up the Thunder God and totally knocks him out. After Thor fall’s unconscious the Hulk would leap away. RESULT: WIN HULK

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 25 HULK: 2 – THOR: 1



AVENGERS VS ATLAS #3 (2010)
Space time is being selectively eroded by an unknown force. To stop the effect, the Agents of Atlas seek the help of the Avengers and find the actual team of the past: Captain America, Iron Man, Wasp, Giant-Man and Thor, with the atomic wildcard The “Gravage” Hulk! Now in the present this wildcard proves to be fatal as the Hulk attacks the Avengers and the Agents of Atlas. Thor will eventually teleport everyone to the shores of Norway so they don’t have to worry about the destruction that will come from this battle. The Hulk attacks again and is eventually swarmed by all the heroes and ends up underwater fighting Namora and Thor. Soon Siren will go under the water to sing to the heroes and calm them all down with the Hulk turning back into Bruce Banner and Thor getting passionate with Namora (Thor’s such a stud). RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 26 HULK: 2 – THOR: 1



Variant Cover
FEAR ITSELF #5 (2011)
This issue stems a ton of questions for Hulk and Thor fans to battle over. This time it's not just the fight itself that was hard to judge but also the dialogue. And the Hulk had been transformed by the Serpent into “Nul, The Breaker of Worlds!” It is stated that as one of the Worthy, Nul was a “powered up” Hulk, but other than his magical Asgardian war-hammer and fighting tactics it seems very debatable. Readers needed answers to just how “enhanced” the Hulk was so here's writer Matt Fraction in his own words about the Worthy;

These people are still conscious. They still are present and aware, and they know what's going on. But they're no longer the only guy driving the ship. They would have different capabilities, different tactics. Nul would be this sort of cold, cruel, relentless force of nature.” 

So fanboys will have to come up with their own conclusions if this is a super-powered Hulk, a regular Hulk with a hammer that just fights differently or if it's even a legitimate Hulk to be listed in this write up at all. More head-scratching, controversial and debatable fun as always. But for me, it's close enough so I'm listing it.

Okay, let's get to the comic and more controversy...

To Thor's credit in this fight he fought both Nul and Angrir, The Breaker of Souls (who was a transformed/possessed Thing). In the fight itself, Thor takes a beating from the two behemoths but will soon eliminate Angrir by calling on Mjolnir and it drives straight through the beasts back (who will later be changed back to normal and be saved by Franklin Richards). Thor now feeling guilty of hurting The Thing so badly attacks Nul in a rage! After some major attacks from both combatants, Thor states that he never could beat the Hulk (once again, it's up to the reader to decide if this was Thor being honest or just trying to set up Nul for the final blow). Regardless, Thor ends up hitting Nul with such force that the beast is sent into orbit and crashes back down towards the Earth far away from the battlefield. Thor will then say, “To be...continued...Banner.” and then collapses unconscious. RESULT: WIN THOR (This fight ending is hard to judge because Nul was knocked into orbit by Thor's blow but was totally unfazed by it. And it was Thor himself who fell unconscious after he landed the strike. Still, I had to give Thor the “win” because he did fight both brutes and Nul had no way of stopping himself from going flying off into space. I'm sure fans of both characters have their own interpretations of what happened but this is how I see it.)

 MATCH UPS: 27 HULK: 2 – THOR: 2


  
HULK SMASH AVENGERS #1 (2012)
An untold tale of an early Avenger encounter with the "Gravage" Hulk! As Thor and the rest of the Avenger team (consisting of Captain America, Giant-Man, Wasp and Iron Man) battles it out with the Hulk, they all manage to hold him in a combined effort. But eventually the Hulk rages and will break free from them and leap away. RESULT: DRAW

MATCH UPS: 28 HULK: 2 - THOR: 2


Later, the "Gravage" Hulk will team up with Baron Zemo, The Enchantress and the Executioner and attack the Avengers. The Hulk will slug it out with Iron Man as Thor exchanges with the Executioner and they never really get at each other. Eventually Baron Zemo holds Rick Jones hostage and this makes the Hulk attack him. Soon Zemo's team departs as the Hulk leaps away again with Rick Jones and the Avengers feeling sorry for the brute. RESULT: NONE

MATCH UPS: 29 HULK: 2 - THOR: 2


AVENGERS ASSEMBLE #4 (2012)
When the Zodiac's benefactor revealed himself, it turns out to be the Mad Titan, Thanos! Now the Avengers team of Thor, the "Savage" Hulk, Hawkeye, Captain America, Iron Man and Black Widow (with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.) stand ready to face him. While Thor is about to make the first attack on the Mad Titan, he puts the Hulk under his mental control and the brute will grab Thor's hand (which is holding Mjolnir) and smash the hammer into Thor's face and knocking him out. Soon the Hulk will attack the rest of the Avengers to a standstill before Thanos escapes. RESULT: NONE (Even though the Hulk knocked Thor out with his hammer, it was a surprise attack so it could not be listed as an actual fight.)

MATCH UPS: 30 HULK: 2 - THOR: 2

After Thanos escaped, Thor regains consciousness and wants to attack the "Savage" Hulk for the brutes attack on him earlier. But Iron Man will stop the Thunderer as he explains that it was Thanos' mental control that made the Hulk do it. RESULT: NONE

MATCH UPS: 31 HULK: 2 - THOR: 2



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE #7 (2012)
While the Avengers drift helpless through space, the Black Widow manages to get to the "Savage" Hulk and throws him at Thor who is floating unconscious. As the Hulk grabs a hold of the Thunder God, he smacks him in the face to wake him up. Thor awakens ready to fight but the Hulk will point to the attacking Badoon army coming at them. RESULT: NONE

MATCH UPS: 32  HULK: 2 - THOR: 2



AVENGERS #1 (2012)
When the Avengers attack the villain Ex Nihilo, the "Gravage" Hulk get's manipulated by his ally The Abyss. She convinces the Hulk that Thor thinks he is stronger than him and he must smash the Thunder God. The Hulk will attack Thor and they brawl it out. RESULT: UNKNOWN (We never see the fight in its entirety as both heroes are next seen unconscious and prisoners of the villains. It is speculated that the Hulk knocked out Thor with his punch and slumped down since he was in a trance. But it's hard to give a definitive result from what the comic panels show.)

 MATCH UPS: 33 HULK: 2 - THOR: 2



INDESTRUCTIBLE HULK #7 (2013)
While the "Gravage" Hulk flies around with Thor's magical war-hammer Mjolnir, he destroys a few Frost Giants in his way. Soon it is revealed that the Hulk didn't lift the hammer after all, it was just returning back to its master. When the Thunder God grabs hold of Mjolnir, the Hulk doesn't want to let go. Thor laughs and will release his grip on the hammer and the Hulk falls off a cliff being dragged down by Mjonir crashing into the ground far below. RESULT: NONE

FINAL TALLY: MATCH UPS: 34 HULK: 2 - THOR: 2



OTHER CONFRONTATIONS







The Hulk and Thor have fought many times in alternate time-lines with definitive and often deadly results. I've noticed throughout the years that both Hulk and Thor fans often make arguments showing these stories to make claims to their debates. But truth be told, despite some interesting stories, these issues don't count. I see them as writers interpretations of “Hulk vs Thor” battles without continuity restraints so they always have fun twists of “What could have been.” Listed here are not all, but just the best of the best of the Hulk and Thor battles that occurred outside of actual Marvel continuity.



THE AVENGERS ANNUAL #2 (1968)
The Avengers (including the "Gravage" Hulk, Captain America, Thor, Giant Man and Wasp) from another dimension go on a tear through their Earth defeating and pummeling all the heroes and villains on it. Throughout the entire adventure Thor and the Hulk get into arguments and almost fight with each other.

Front Cover
Back Cover
MARVEL TREASURY #9: GIANT SUPERHERO TEAM-UP (1976)
While this Marvel Treasury just reprints the legendary "Hulk vs Thor" battle in Journey into Mystery #112, I had to list it due to the incredible front and back cover art done by Gil Kane and inked by John Romita. These are amazing pictures of the Hulk slugging it out with the Thunder God as well as other famous Superhero battles that are part of the Marvel mythos.



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #200 (1976)
The "Savage" Hulk (with a special helmet on that gives Bruce Banner's brain control of the Hulk) battles illusions of his greatest foes inside the infected mind of Glenn Talbot. There, an illusion of Thor is among the many foes that attack and get defeated by the raging Hulk (who has long destroyed the helmet) which eventually frees Talbot from the control.



THE RAMPAGING HULK MAGAZINE #9 (1978)
This adventure was later written out of continuity and said to be a movie created by an alien-fan (and lover) of the Hulk, Bereet. The story takes place during the early years of the Avengers. While the Hulk fights with an alien impersonating Iron man, he is later met up by the real Iron man with Thor, Ant-man, and Wasp. Thor and the Hulk will clash a few times with no victor and eventually team up to send the bad aliens packing.



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #227 (1978)
The Hulk crushes Mjolnir...I think not! While this issue has a dream sequence of the Hulk crushing Mjolnir, I've heard Hulk fanboys claim that if mad enough, the Hulk could actually do this. They are wrong because it is impossible to destroy Mjolnir physically due to the weapons magical nature.

Doc Samson hypnotizes the Hulk and starts his psychoanalysis. The doctor believed that Hulk and Bruce were the same person but this session reveals that Bruce and Hulk are two different persons. During the hypnotic dreams, Hulk fights the Avengers and Bruce Banner himself. In The Hulk's confrontation with Thor, the green brute stops Thor's attack and crushes Mjolnir with one-hand before easily tossing aside the Thunder God. 



WHAT IF #29 (1981)
"IF" tale of the Avengers defeating everyone on Earth. When tensions start within the team, the Hulk is shown slugging it out with Thor in a panel that get's broken up by Iron Man.



THE AVENGERS ANNUAL #13 (1984)
The labs at Northwind Observatory in the Catskill Mountains are full of Bruce Banner’s inventions. Reed is called in to determine their purposes. She-Hulk pilots him there in the Fantasticar, where the Avengers have gathered and Jen is introduced to an impressed Hank McCoy. Jen finds the scope of her cousin’s genius eerie. She tells Thor how little Jennifer Sue Walters used to spend her summers in Ohio with her older cousin Bruce.They lost touch as they got older, Bruce breezed through college and was working on top secret projects while Jen was high school senior. She was in law school when he had his gamma bomb accident. Years after, he saved her life with a transfusion. She’s gotten off on being the She-Hulk. She grows somber when she tells Thor she heard Bruce’s mind was lost to the Hulk again. Thor comforts her with the thought that he’s not really lost if she treasures the memories of youth. Suddenly they fight the Hulk & Wasp kills him. But it turns out to be a clone! Then they fight a mass of purple protoplasm that used to be the Hulk clone’s pants: this mass is under the control of Arnim Zola & he kidnaps Reed & Pym. They battle many Hulk clones with 80% Hulk strength. Jen wants to shove every one of these clones down Zola’s throat. If he hasn’t got a throat she’ll find something else to shove them down. Mjolnir saves Jen getting brained by a hurled jeep. Monica electrocutes the pants. Hulk clones trash Zola’s escape ship which crashes in Papacton reservoir. Jen expresses no sorrow that Zola is fish food. Worries that Bruce’s work could reach the hands of other twistos. Reed & Pym confide that they are going to sabotage anything that might reach those hands.
 


WHAT IF #45 (1984)
Bruce Banner is unable to throw Rick Jones into the trench, but was able to protect him with his own body from the gamma rays. This resulted in a psyche link between the two. Banner will become the Hulk and Rick will be treated for radiation poisoning. Thunderbolt Ross eventually discovered the existence of the link between Jones and the green goliath so he decided to give non-fatal electric shocks to the boy to inflict pain and defeat the Hulk. The Hulk felt the unbearable pain and went to destroy the army base. Soon Rick's condition grew worse, eventually dying which caused the Hulk to go homicidal. Desperately, Ross summons the Fantastic Four for help. But Jade Jaws kills the Thing and the Human Torch. So Iron Man and Thor show up but Tony Stark is eventually killed too. The Hulk now turns his attention to the God of Thunder, whose mystic mallet had fallen from his hands in the confrontation. Now with the sixty second mark almost up which will change Thor to his human form, he must take extreme measures. Thor ends up outmaneuvering the crazed Hulk and snapping his neck. To grant Bruce Banner a peaceful afterlife, Thor takes Banner to Valhalla by summoning a thunderbolt shower to disintegrate Banner's body. Ross and Talbot decide to turn themselves into the authorities. This is easily one of the most hardcore “Hulk vs Thor” stories ever.



WHAT IF #4 (1989)
While this is more of a Spider-man story, it is another interesting “What If” tale that has a “Hulk vs Thor” clash with deadly results.

When the symbiote takes control of Spider-man it causes many events that Spidey was there to help out never to come about. While Dr. Strange tries to send the “Mindless” Hulk to another dimension (as seen in The Incredible Hulk #300), this Spider-man jumps in and knock's him out while taking control of the Hulk's body. Eventually it's Thor that finds this symbiote Hulk and they brawl it out with the symbiote now possessing The Thunder God and leaving Bruce Banner's body in its wake. The heroes will get Black Bolt to help Thor who is resisting the symbiote's control and thus weakening it. When the dust settles, there is no more Mount Rushmore and Thor rises battered, with the symbiote lying at his feet. Soon Black Cat will show up and finally kill the creature with a specially made sonic gun. This one is a real classic, especially for Thor fans! Because they like to use this issue as a prime example of what should really happen if Thor fought the Hulk in a battle to the death. 



MARVEL ILLUSTRATED #1 (1991)
During the Summer Olympics "Power Lift" competition, Thor proves to be the strongest being in the world by coming in first place! Overpowering the likes of the "Gray" Hulk, Hercules (who both tied for second place), Wonder Man, Thing, Namor, She-Hulk and others. A truly fitting day for the Son of Odin!



SAVAGE HULK: ONE-SHOT (1996)
Stories that include some of the Hulk's greatest rouges. In a non-continuity tale during the Avengers beginnings, the Hulk slugs it out with Thor in the desert. They go back and fourth landing some power shots until Iron man eventually breaks it up.



Variant Cover
THE AVENGERS #4 (1997)
The “Heroes Reborn” Hulk makes short work of the Avengers in the previous issue until he is met up with the “Heroes Reborn” Thor. They have a huge back and fourth fight until the Hulk grows angry enough to knock out this Thunder God. While the Hulk was the genuine article this Thor was not as he fell to the Hulk's raw power. The real Marvel Universe Thor would eventually show up later on in the series and return to the Avengers team.



THE ULTIMATES #5 (2002)
 After injecting the Super-Soldier serum into his veins, Bruce Banner turned into the Hulk, but not like the original Hulk. This Hulk is angrier, hungrier, and hornier then ever before. Now The Ultimates set out to find and stop this crazed beast. As The Hulk searches for his ex-girlfriend, Betty, The Ultimates attack! They have a huge battle all over the city with no hope of stopping this Hulk. Then comes the cavalry as a lighting storm pours down that throws The Hulk blocks away. The beast starts to gets up as Thor smashes into him, but it still doesn't stop the monster. The Hulk will then throw Thor down a few streets, only leading to Cap's next plan, which is to use Betty as bait that eventually works in calming down The Hulk and changes him back into Banner who Cap will kick in the face and knock him out cold.



THE MIGHTY THOR #73 (2004)
When Thor decided to move Asgard to hover above New York City many of the powers that be wanted him gone. After the Consortium of Nations staged a massive assault on Asgard, causing its destruction, and the deaths of untold tens of thousands of both humans and Asgardians, Thor resolved to stay and fight for his dream. But him killing his own humanity in the form of Jake Olson was the linchpin event, resulting in him no longer being worthy of Mjolnir. Now a few heroes get pissed and rise up against him. Dr. Strange get's help from the pantheon of skyfathers to strip Thor of the Odinforce. Wolverine attacks and will slice Thor's arm but then get disintegrated by God's eye beams! And now The Hulk and Thing attack and battle Thor for hours before they are killed. This time line ends when Desak attacks Thor and he eventually regains the worthiness to hold Mjolnir and kills Desak with it. Next Thor will travel back in time to change the knowledge of his past self so these events will never come to pass. 

This issue is more controversial cannon fodder for the “Hulk vs Thor” argument because sometimes Thor fans say this story actually happened and Hulk fans say it didn't. Was it really a reality that went away or because it did happen and then went away it wasn't a real reality? Confused? Yeah, me too. This is such a head scratching story arch with too many implications to be considered cannon IMHO so I have to go with the Hulk fans on this one. Thor changes the events that make this story never come to pass, so for that, it never happened (I think??).


LAST HERO STANDING #5 (2005)
In the MC2 universe, this Hulk (who is being influenced by Loki) goes on a rampage and is met up by most heroes of Earth and defeats them. Eventually the Hulk is met up by Thor and they have a huge battle while Captain America and others confront Loki. Thor almost unleashes the full force of Mjolnir to kill the Hulk but adverted his aim at the last second. Cleared of his mind control, the Hulk teams with Thor to stop Loki.




ONSLAUGHT REBORN #2 and 3 (2007)
The "Heroes Reborn" Hulk would later meet up with the "Heroes Reborn" Thor again in another rumble. This time Onslaught's influence jumps from each combatants mind as they brawl it out with the Hulk finally throwing Thor to the moon. The rest of the Avengers come in to stop the Hulk with Iron man finally knocking the brute out with a nice hit from behind. I was a bit hesitant listing this fight because this isn't even the real Thor and the horrendous art from Rob Liefeld made my eyes bleed...



NEW AVENGERS: AN ARMY OF ONE #7 (2009)
With the "Savage" Hulk rampaging across the American Southwest, it will take the combined might of just about every Marvel hero including Thor and the U.S. Military to stop him. While the battle is intense with all the heroes piling up on the Hulk, Thor and Hercules manage to get in some big power shots before a team of Military sharpshooters finally take the Hulk out with admantium tipped darts that  make him change back into Bruce Banner and sedate him.



BREAKING INTO COMICS THE MARVEL WAY #2 (2010)
Another controversial issue but this time it's not just the fanboys, it's the writer and artist of the comic itself...sheesh. Only in the mythos of “Hulk vs Thor.”

While some Hulk fans claim that this fight where Thor basically pounds on the Hulk is the Red Hulk and not the real Hulk because the art and coloring look a lot like the previous issues where Thor was fighting Rulk, writer Kevin Grevioux tells otherwise;

  “It was indeed the GREEN Hulk and that Thor was fighting. But the problem was that the artist drew the NEW Thor costume and not the classic Thor costume. Because of this, and the sepia tone coloring of the panel, it came off as the more recent Thor/Red Hulk battle and not one of the classic Thor/Hulk battles of the past like it was intended to be.”

So there you have it to end the debate of this head scratching and controversial 4 page story. Oh yeah, and one more thing...who cares because this comic is meaningless either way and not in continuity. 


THE AVENGERS SEASON ONE (2012)
A contemporary retelling of the early adventures of the Avengers and how they came to be (packaged with the Avengers movie at selected locations). Loki is angered about his failed attempts to destroy his step-brother, Thor (which lead to the formation of the Avengers). He is now contemplating another plan. While the three Avengers embark on solo missions looking for the "Gravage" Hulk (who has already left the team), Thor is soon confronted by Zarrko, The Tomorrow-Man! Zarrko has pulled the "Gray" Hulk from time and brainwashed him to attack Thor. While Thor begins to get the better of this Hulk, Zarrko summons another brainwashed Hulk from the past to attack the Thunder God. This "Gravage" Hulk attacks and now both brutes fight with the Tunder God. But using his wits, Thor manages to throw each Hulk into the other and they begin to brawl among themselves until he convinces them that Zarrko is the real enemy. Both Hulk's agree and attack Zarrko but he quickly sends them back in time. Now Zarrko manages to escape and Thor continues his quest to find the current Hulk. Finally, all three Avengers confront the brute, but with their minds being clouded by Loki, they attack. They use teamwork to keep the Hulk off balance and when Thor is about to land the final blow, Captain America stops him. As they argue, the Hulk attacks again and is eventually hit miles away by Thor and crashes into a dam. The impact from the Hulk's body cracks the dam and it begins to leak. As Thor tries to pursue the brute, he is stopped by Iron Man and they realize that Loki is behind their actions. The Hulk is now trying to save the townspeople from the rushing waters but they seem to be more afraid of him than anything else, so he leaps away. Now Cap, Thor and Iron Man manage to stop the waters, repair the dam and help the people to save the day. They make a promise to stay united as the Avengers for the betterment of mankind and to never doubt their friendship again. As for Loki, Odin finds out about his schemes and punish his step-son by dripping venom into his eyes...ouch!




AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES #11 (2013)
When Thor and Hercules engage each other in a battle for the ages, it's up to the Hulk to put an end to it. A nice little twist where the Green Goliath is the voice of reason...or is he?



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE #1 (2013)
Back up story called  "Helicarrier Havoc!" featuring the LEGO Avengers. Loki tricks the Hulk into going on a rampage and Thor must put a stop to it. After he slams Mjolnir to the ground to trip the Hulk, he gets up ready to fight the LEGO Thunder God. Hawkeye stops the two titans from brawling it out and discovers it's Loki.



AVENGERS #27 (2014)
An alternate-reality Avengers team fights against the real Avengers. When the alternate-Hulk returns to his team (who have already been defeated), he starts to brawl it out with Thor and the rest of the Avengers. During the battle A.I.M. stealthily captures both teams in a temporal shielding, and removes the alternate-reality Avengers in order to send them back to their reality.



MEDIA

Listed in this section is every time the Hulk squared off against Thor in a movie, cartoon, video game, magazines, etc. Now this category might not be in actual comic continuity but it plays a very important role in how the mainstream audience views each character and where they stand when facing off with one another. Plus, these two have had some great fights that have been animated onto the small screen and they cannot be denied.




THE MARVEL SUPERHEROES: THE INCREDIBLE HULK CARTOON (SEASON: 1 EPISODES: 22-24 (CHAPTERS: "THE SPACE PHANTOM", "STING OF THE WASP", "EXIT THE HULK" 1966)
This cartoon is basically a retelling of Avengers #2 when The Hulk first meets Thor at the the Avengers meeting that results in him quitting the team. These cartoon cells are taking right from the Jack Kirby panels of the comic and come to life with “limited” animation. Despite the toons flaws, it's great to see the very beginnings of the Hulk's rivalry with Thor in an animated form.


OFFICIAL MARVEL COMICS SUPERHERO STAMP ALBUM (1976)
Marvel stamp album that showcases "Hulk vs Thor" in dramatic fashion on a stamp.


THE INCREDIBLE HULK CALENDAR (1979)
The Hulk is seen slugging it out with Thor and the Avengers from the early days of Marvel. 

SPIDER-MAN AND HULK MINI BAGATELLE (1980)
This handheld game by Durham showcases Marvel heroes as well as a "Hulk vs Thor" brawl!

MARVEL'S MAGIC MOMENTS STICKERS (1987) 
This 80 piece sticker set showcasing some of Marvel's most infamous moments includes a sticker that has a classic "Hulk vs Thor" scene from Journey into Mystery #112.





THE INCREDIBLE HULK RETURNS (1988)
This is the very first time a superhero match up was brought to the public on a major platform, the television screen! Although the Hulk and Thor battle was short lived (and a little corny), it did cement the fact that this rivalry was an all time classic in the annals of Marvel history and well on it's way to new heights of popularity.

This television movie acted as a backdoor pilot for an unproduced television series featuring Thor. This is the first time another character or element from the Marvel Universe appeared in Hulk's TV series. Thor's appearance differs significantly from the comic version of the original, resembling a more realistic version of the Thunder God of Norse mythology but still closely following the comic in that he is sent to earth to learn humility. This is also the first and only time that magical or supernatural elements have been used in the universe of the television series. When both heroes first meet, Thor looks upon The Hulk as a great challenge and eagerly engages him in combat. The Thunder God doesn't fair so well against his savage opponent as The Hulk makes Thor rethink his decision and ask for friendship instead.


THE INCREDIBLE HULK (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 9 "MORTAL BOUNDS" 1996)
While the Hulk 1966 cartoon was basically a retelling of the Hulk's first meeting with the Avengers from Avengers #2, this stands as the first cartoon to showcase the "Hulk vs Thor" rivalry to a generation. I have to admit that this is Thor's finest showings against the Hulk in the media format. Because both characters came off looking very powerful and very even.

The Gargoyle releases a gamma virus on the citizens of Detroit, and Bruce Banner is the only one who can stop it from spreading. To make matters worse, Betty is infected with an extreme dosage of the virus! Bruce eventually meets Doctor Donald Blake (who is treating Betty), and he transforms into the mighty Thor. They have two big fights in this episode with the second being a three way free for all with the Abomination included. But both fights end in a draw and eventually together, the Hulk and Thor team up and race to find a cure!




MARVEL VS CAPCOM: CLASH OF THE SUPERHEROES (1998)
This is the fifth Marvel Comics-licensed fighting game by Capcom and the third game in the Marvel vs. Capcom series. A new twist featured back up characters that would assist your team. While the Hulk is a playable character and used in previous installments, Thor made his debut to this series as only an assisting one. And even though he cannot engage the Hulk fully, he can still attack the Hulk while assisting an opposing team with his lightning strike. It was kind of a let down at the time because fans would have perfered to see Thor as a usable character to engage the Hulk as well as other characters in this game.

The game takes place within the Marvel comic continuity, as Professor Charlies Xavier calls out for heroes to stop him before he merges with the consciousness of Magneto and becomes the being known as Onslaught, the final boss. The game was developed in late 1997 and first released in January 1998 to both the arcade and then to home game systems.



HULK VS THOR: CLASSIC MARVEL BATTLES AND TEAM UPS (2005)
A classic retro tin toy from Schylling pays homage to the "Hulk vs Thor" mythos. Just squeeze the handle together and watch Thor and the Hulk pummel each other into oblivion. Props have to be made to this toy for using the classic Jack Kirby art to showcase each character. A must for all Hulk or Thor fans!!







ULTIMATE AVENGERS: THE ANIMATED MOVIE (2006)
The first animated dvd feature to show "Hulk vs Thor" to a major audience! While this was more of an Ultimates / Marvel version of all the characters, the Hulk and Thor brawl in this was the first to show the gap in power levels between them with the Hulk coming off looking much more powerful and definitely the stronger. The public perception of "Hulk vs Thor" was now truly changing.

In the last days of WWII in the European Theater, Steve Rogers, a U.S. soldier, known as Captain America due to being enhanced with the "Super-Soldier Serum", prevents a missile launch by Nazi's which are soon revealed to be shape-shifting extraterrestrials led by one taking the form of SS officer Herr Kleiser The missile explosion, however, sends Rogers into a catatonic state, and he falls into the icy waters of the North Atlantic, presumed dead. In the present day, Captain America is found and revived by a S.H.E.L.D. team led by General Nick Fury. Bruce Banner and his ex-girlfriend Betty Ross lead a team of government scientists working to recreate the Super-Soldier Serum in order to try and stop the real power that backed the Nazis - the alien Chitauri. Banner thinks the Super-Soldier Serum is the key to him controlling the Hulk, and he secretly uses his blood to try to create a cure, instead of using candidates that had been selected for the rebirth procedure.

A Chitauri attack on a S.H.I.E.L.D. satellite designed to track the Chitauri ships forces Nick Fury's superiors to order the implementation of "Project Avenger", which involves the formation of a team of super-humans. Fury tries to recruit - with mixed success – Giant-man (a scientist who had been released from S.H.I.E.L.D prior to the film), Wasp (Giant-Man's wife), Iron man/Tony Stark (an industrialist playboy), Thor (whose claims to be Thor are not widely accepted) and the Black Widow (a S.H.I.E.L.D. spy) - and after several setbacks, including a botched mission that led to all but Black Widow walking away from the team, the heroes unite to fight the Chitauri. Although successful, the team must then fight an enraged Hulk, after Banner released his alter ego to aid in the battle against the Chitauri before losing control. Thor and the Hulk have a huge fight with the brute eventually getting strong enough to pick up Mjolnir and knock Thor out with it. The rest of the team managed to eventually distract the Hulk long enough for Betty to calm him, and Banner is then incarcerated. The heroes then celebrate their success.

What makes this interpretation of the heroes interesting is that the creators use both elements of the Marvel and Ultimate Universe versions of the characters.






HULK VS THOR: ANIMATED FEATURE (2009)
This animated feature once again brings the "Hulk vs Thor" match up to the masses to showcase the dynamic and powers they bring to the table. While this feature did showcase the Hulk's true power over the Thunder God, the gap between them was now growing even further apart with the Hulk clearly being shown to be the stronger and more durable. While The Ultimate Avengers movie of (2006) was a different interpretation of each character, there could be no more excuses because this was the "traditional" Marvel versions of Hulk and Thor at their best.

Loki, god of mischief, has kidnapped Dr. Bruce Banner and brought him to Asgard with the help of Amora, once Thor's lover, now the super-villain known as the Enchantress. Loki makes Banner angry and he changes into the Hulk. The Enchantress then casts a spell over the Hulk which separates Banner from his monstrous alter-ego and grants Loki control over the Hulk's body.

Hulk/Loki arrives at the gates of Asgard and attacks the Warriors Three (Fandral, Hogun, and Volstagg) and other Asgardians. Thor comes to the gates and is attacked by Hulk/Loki. Thor is familiar with Bruce Banner, but does not know that Loki is controlling the Hulk. Thor tries to communicate with Banner, which results in Loki actually talking through the Hulk.

After a prolonged battle, Hulk/Loki attempts to pick up Thor's hammer, Mjolnir, which is enchanted with a spell that renders it usable only to those it deems worthy. Amora warns Loki that he can not wield Mjolnir, and has to stop before he is no longer in control of the Hulk. Loki, of course, does not listen and continues to attempt to lift the hammer via the Hulk's unimaginable strength. Mjolnir flies to Thor, who uses his powers to separate Loki from the Hulk. It works, but this proves to be a huge mistake. Without Banner's personality or Loki's control, the Hulk is an unstoppable living incarnation of pure rage, and he beats Thor to death.

Hela, the daughter of Loki and ruler of Hel, the underworld, attempts to claim Thor's soul but is stopped by the Enchantress. Amora refers to Thor as "my love" and kisses him, which revives the thunder god. At first Thor appears to intend to go back after the Hulk, but realizes another fight would only have the same result. To stop the Hulk they must reunite him with Bruce Banner. Amora betrays Loki and gives Thor the location of where he is hiding.

Thor arrives at Loki's hideout with the aid of the Enchantress and they discover that Loki has murdered Banner, after growing tired of Banner's warnings about the Hulk. Therefore, Amora has no way to send the Hulk back to Earth. Thor tells Amora that she must go to Sif, the woman Thor now loves, to aid and defend Odin. She reluctantly agrees and Loki summons all of his evil forces to stop the Hulk and Thor and Loki travel to Hel together. However, not even good and evil combined could halt the Hulk's advance, as he was beckoned by the light coming from Odin's chambers.

Thor and Loki arrive in Hel where they meet Hela who at first refuses to bring Bruce Banner back. Saying that once he is dead his spirit is hers. Though Thor and Loki convince her to bring him back, since Bruce's spirit was split from the Hulk she has an "Incomplete Soul". Since his death, Banner is enjoying an afterlife in which his life is back to normal, living free from the Hulk, he is the husband to his true love, Betty Ross and father to a boy named Bruce Jr. Soon though, this vision ends when Hela brings him to her throne where Thor and Loki await. Thor says that Asgard needs his help but Banner does not want to help and wishes to remain dead, in his happy vision. Loki slyly manages to convince Hela to bring the Hulk to Hel, so that she could have the complete being. She complies and teleports the Hulk to Hel, just as had reached Odin's slumbering form.

Hulk attacks upon seeing Banner, and after another battle with Thor who loses the fight even with Loki's help, Banner gets Hulk's attention dropping Thor and Loki to charge him when he comes in contact with Banner they rejoin and is teleported back to Earth by Hela, who considers him too dangerous to be kept, even in the Underworld. However, due to the damage the Hulk had caused to her kingdom, she punishes Loki for it but promises his stay won't be permanent, given that she is his daughter. Odin finally awakens and Sif and Thor kiss each other as Amora quietly leaves, deeply saddened. Odin holds a celebration that day for all of the Asgardians who triumphed over evil and also gives his thanks to Bruce Banner who is back on Earth. The final scene is of Banner walking alone down a barren highway.


HULK VS ONLINE GAME (2009)
This is an online game at Marvelkids.com that is based on the Hulk VS Wolverine and Hulk VS Thor animated features. As the Hulk you must smash through the Weapon X facility to battle Wolverine and then battle some Asgardian warriors as you make your way for a one-on-one showdown with The Mighty Thor.



SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 1 "AND LO...A PILOT SHALL COME!" 2009)
While this is not a "Hulk vs Thor" slugfest in a cartoon, it does show the Hulk wanting to attack Mrs. Marvel  for going nuts (like she always does) with Wolverine and Thor holding him back. 



SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 12 "DEADLY IS THE BLACK WIDOW'S BITE!" 2009)
While this is not a "Hulk vs Thor" slugfest in a cartoon, it does show the Hulk and Thor battle for the affection of the Black Widow (who is really Mystique in disguise). They argue over who has the bigger biceps and who is the better squaddie for her attention.



SUPERHERO SQUAD VIDEO GAME (2009)
While this game has two options of play; Adventure Mode, where Hulk and Thor along with the other members of the Superhero Squad go through various levels defeating waves of enemies and bosses to eventually fight the final boss Dr. Doom. The other option is Battle Mode, where you pick one character to use in free-for-all fighting action. Players defeat their opponents by depleting their health or knocking them out of the arena! Hulk fighting Thor has never been cuter than this!



AVENGERS: EARTH’S MIGHTIEST HEROES (SEASON: 1
EPISODE: 8 "SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED" 2010)
The Enchantress shows up and “enchants” the Hulk into attacking the Avengers, which sets off a huge fight. The Hulk and Thor have a nice tussle in Central Park before the other Avengers interfere. Eventually the battle stops when the Hulk comes back to his senses and the Avengers team up to defeat the Enchantress and the Executioner in the next episode.




SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW SEASON 2 CARTOON INTRO (2010)
The intro to season 2 of the Superhero Squad shows a quick homage to the "Hulk vs Thor" mythos with the Hulk and Thor looking like they are going to square off and battle it out (see 16 seconds in to the link above). But they end up attacking the villain's MODOK and the Abomintaion who are behind them. Even though this may not be an official fight between the the two heroes, it is fun to see!




SUPERHERO SQUAD: THE INFINITY GAUNTLET VIDEO GAME (2010)
There are three modes of play in the game: the first is "Story Mode", which allows up to two players to complete the game story with a limited selection of heroes available; the second mode is "Challenge Mode", which allows for up to four players to play together with an increased choice of thirty different superheroes and supervillains to either fight it out or play an array mini games; the final mode of play is "Freeplay Mode", which allows the player to go back to any level and replay it as any playable character. You can also have them fighting if you download the "Thanos Thowdown" option where you get to not only use Thanos as a playable character but you get two new styles of play for the "Challenge Mode" option. With"Mayhem Marathon" you can play with up to four players and keep battling swarms of villains to see who can get the highest score. And in "Combat Crater" you can fight up to four players in a fighting free-for-all while collecting gems and bonuses that pop up and giving characters special powers. Hulk fighting Thor is once again in a Super Squad video game! Can't these little guys get along?





SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 2 EPISODE: 35 "BLIND RAGE KNOWS NO COLOR!" 2011)
Thanos uses the Mind Gem to control Hulk who goes on a sleepwalking rampage. Thor and the rest of the Super Hero Squad try to wake him up, to no avail. When the Hulk meets up with the Thing, they have a major brawl. The Super Hero Squad must enter the dream realm to fight back, even if they have to get help from Nightmare.



SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 2 EPISODE: 37 "SO PRETTY WHEN THEY EXPLODE!" 2011)
While not a Hulk vs Thor vs Hercules vs She-Hulk slugfest in a cartoon. I have to mention this episode because they all try to prove to the other who is truly the superior in strength, especially Hulk, Thor and Hercules (with their ego's in high gear). It is a fun episode that plays out the controversy on who is the strongest hero in the Super Squad universe!



SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 2 EPISODE: 48 "MISSING IMPOSSIBLE!" 2011)
When the Impossible Man's wife kicks him out, the prankster ends up crashing with the Super Hero Squad. To save his marriage he attempt to go defeat the Dark Surfer. During a scene, the Hulk wants to smash and Thor and the other heroes have to hold him back or the Helecarrier will self-destruct.



MARVEL SUPERHERO SQUAD ONLINE VIDEO GAME (2011)
This online PC game has a ton of features where Hulk, Thor and all the other Marvel heroes can be used to play. Have level games and battle minions until you meet up with the villain bosses, team up with other players online, train your heroes and interact with the entire Marvel Universe. Also there is a fun option for fighting each other in a card game style format. This game is in the style of many of the popular card games for kids, where you try to trump the card your opponent plays, or stop them from being able to put one down at all.  You’ll begin by building your deck, choosing cards with a high damage potential, or cards that might help you block your opponent’s attack.  Your chosen hero will face off in an arena with one opponent.  Each turn you have the chance to attack, block an attack, or pass if you have nothing to play.  Make your opponent lose all of the cards in his hand to win the game.  With each card you play, the character on the card will enter the battle arena and perform an action.  It’s really fun to see your favorite characters attacking, blocking, or cheering their victories.  When you win a game, you’ll be rewarded with a new card for your deck. Have Hulk and Thor fight in a battle royal of the ages or have them fight others. Either way it's some super fun to play!





MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3: FATE OF TWO WORLDS/ULTIMATE MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3 (2011)
The game is a modified version of earlier systems seen in the Marvel vs. Capcom series. It is the first game in the franchise to feature three-dimensional character models as opposed to two-dimensional sprites, though gameplay remains restricted to two-dimensions, allowing characters to move only backward, forward, or straight up into the air.

In Marvel vs Capcom 3, Thor is finally an actual character that a player can use (he was left out of the previous Marvel vs Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes in 2000) and can now engage the Hulk in full combat or partner up with him. "Ultimate" Marvel vs Capcom 3 was later released in late 2011 that added twelve new characters to the game as well as fixing some of the games flaws. Thor and The Hulk actually got more devastating in this newer version and both are total powerhouses.


GAMMA STRIKE HULK (2012)
This Hulk toy released as merchandise for the Avengers movie has the Hulk saying a few lines against Thor like “Hulk smash… Hulk smash Thor! (Crash!)" among a host of other Hulk-like phrases. This is the first figure ever that actually brings the whole "Hulk vs Thor" dynamic to children and fans.


MIGHTY STRIKE THOR (2012)
This Thor toy released as merchandise for the Avengers movie has the Thor saying “Hulk...Truly your strength is unmatched!" among a host of other Thor phrases. This is the first figure ever that actually brings the whole "Hulk vs Thor" dynamic to children and fans.



THE MIGHTY AVENGERS: AN ORIGINS STORY (2012)
A children's book that retells the origins of the Avengers. This story is taken from the original comics and simplified for children, While the Hulk clashes with Iron Man in the story, Thor will confront the Hulk and throw Mjolnir at him, but it turns out just to be an illusion conjured up by Loki.


CAPTAIN AMERICA JOINS THE MIGHTY AVENGERS (2012)
A children's book that retells the origin of the Avengers. After the Hulk quits the Avenger team consisting of Thor, Iron Man, Ant-Man and the Wasp, he will then attack them with his new ally, the Sub-Mariner. As the Hulk and Namor fight and are about to totally defeat the Avengers (with Thor being the only member still conscious but on his knees being humbled by the duo), the Hulk will then surprisingly punch Namor into the water. The entire event turned out to be a plan that the Hulk concocted to defeat Namor. Soon the Hulk befriends the Avengers again and they eventually find Captain America's frozen body. Now under Cap's leadership, the Avengers will chase off Namor and his Atlantean Army.





AVENGERS ALLIANCE FACEBOOK GAME (2012)
Avengers Alliance is a nod to the classic turn-based role-playing games that players have known and loved for decades. Your party will feature three members, and each member and enemy on the field will take turns performing single actions. Actions consume stamina, and range from offensive attacks and defensive buffs to item uses, stamina recharges, and more. It’s a simple enough system to understand.

While the Hulk and Thor are characters that becomes an ally and helps you on your missions, they can clash if visiting other players Battle Chamber. You can also go up against other players in the Training Room and climb up the Leaderboard. 



The Hulk and Thor slugging it out on the big screen is simply AMAZING to witness! Because of this record-setting blockbuster movie, "Hulk vs Thor" can now be considered as the most popular comic rivalry of all time! And although the pic above is made as a joke, some scenes from the actual fight were taken directly from this issue of Defenders #10!


THE AVENGERS MOVIE (2012)
This is by far, the biggest event ever to happen to "Hulk vs Thor" because it stands as the very first time a superhero rivalry has ever hit the big screen (Iron Man vs War Machine in Iron Man 2 in 2010 were two allies fighting each other and not rivals) and was presented to the masses!! And with this movie becoming a major hit on a world-wide scale, "Hulk vs Thor" stands as the most popular match up ever in comics! Move over "Superman vs Captain Marvel" because a new king has been crowned!!

In the fight itself, the Hulk and Thor clash aboard the S.H.I.E.L.D. helecarrier after Thor saves Black Widow from the Hulk's onslaught! They slug it out a little before the Hulk sends the Thunder god flying with a punch (it should be noted that Thor needs his two-hands to stalemate the Hulk who is using just one)! Thor rises as he wipes off blood from his nose and breaks out into a broad grin ready for more. Then Thor hits an attacking Hulk with a nice uppercut with Mjolnir that sends the brute into a plane and dazes him for a few seconds. Now getting madder and stronger, the Hulk attacks and they fight back and forth, it's nice to see the Hulk trying to pick up Mjolnir but cannot do it (with scenes taking directly from Defenders #10) At the end, the Hulk is seen pounding on Thor until the S.H.I.E.L.D. agents intervene and fire on the brute, but the Hulk soon attacks them. 

Later on as the battle against the aliens rages, Thor and Hulk begin working together, smashing aliens left and right as a team. They pause for a moment, and stand side by side in the frame. Then, in a funny moment, Hulk turns and suddenly smashes Thor, who goes flying right out of the frame. Totally unexpected, and absolutely hysterical. A highpoint of the movie!

Okay, the Hulk fanboys can rejoice a little in this because the Hulk is clearly shown to be the stronger in the movie but Thor is no slouch, as he is a powerhouse as well. And nobody should complain because it's "HULK VS THOR" on a freaking theater screen and both characters shined!!!!!



AVENGERS: EARTH’S MIGHTIEST HEROES (SEASON: 2
EPISODE: 48 "THE DEADLIEST MAN ALIVE" 2012)
General Ross as the Red Hulk manipulates the Hulk to go on a rampage and this causes him to battle it out with Thor and the rest of The Avengers. After a battle, the Red Hulk convinces The Avengers that he should be on the team, while Captain America refuses to believe that the real Hulk has gone rogue. After Cap and Wasp free the Hulk of the mind-control device that is making him rage, they all regroup and find out it was the Red Hulk behind the scam and eventually defeat him while finding out that he is really General Ross in the process.



AVENGERS: BATTLE FOR EARTH VIDEO GAME (2012)
The ultimate super hero brawler, Marvel Avengers Battle For Earth features 20 different characters including the Avengers Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, and Thor, as well as other fan favorite super heroes and villains from the Marvel Universe. Players will use motion gameplay to execute explosive super attacks, unleash devastating special moves, and battle their friends in a wide variety of game modes. You are able to team the Hulk and Thor up or have them face off!


MARVEL VS CAPCOM: ORIGINS VIDEO GAME (2012)
An updated remake of the two classic Capcom fighting games for a new Generation.  This downloadable game includes Marvel Superheroes (which Thor is not included) and  Marvel vs Capcom: Clash of the Superheroes (which has Thor as an assist character).


 UPPER DECK MARVEL PREMIER SHADOWBOX SUB-SET CARD (2012)
A special card of the Hulk and Thor locked in combat makes it into the Marvel Premier 50 card sub-set that is very hard to complete.



AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES Vol. 6 "END OF THE COSMOS" DVD (2013)
While this dvd set has the final 12 episodes to the cartoon series. On the first disk bonus features the voices of the Avengers (Captain America, Thor and Iron Man) give commentary on their missions throughout the cartoon. When the Hulk steps in and starts getting angry, he begins to slug it out with Thor until Cap breaks it up  by tricking the Hulk into leaving. It's hilarious to hear while the feature is playing.


 


MARVEL HEROES ONLINE GAME (2013)
An MMO/ARPG game by Gazillion Entertainment. While this is not just a "Hulk vs Thor" game, you can play with up to 26 characters including Thor, The Hulk, Thing, Storm, Mrs. Marvel, Iron ManCaptain America, Spider-man, Deadpool and Wolverine as well as 13 non-playable characters that will help you out or you can fight against them with your own made-up teams.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 1 "THE AVENGERS PROTOCOL PART 1" 2013)
The Avengers regroup after Iron Man goes out on a manhunt for the Red Skull and M.O.D.O.K. who has captured Captain America. Hulk, Thor, Hawkeye, Black Widow and Falcon are called in. During this episode, the Hulk and Thor have a few competitive scraps with each other.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 2 "THE AVENGERS PROTOCOL PART 2" 2013)
In part two, Thor and the Hulk have another competitive scrap until they are both overtaken by mind-control  (cause by the Red Skull and M.O.D.O.K.) and start to really attack each other as well as the other Avengers. This has a great scene where the Hulk and Thor smash into each other and creates a huge thunderclap as well as a huge crater in the ground. All the Avengers go back and forth until Iron Man frees them.




AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 3 "GHOST OF A CHANCE" 2013)
While the Falcon brings his mother's baked cookies to an Avenger meeting, the Hulk, Thor and the Black Widow fight over them. Of course, this doesn't sit well with Captain America who is trying to maintain some sort of order during all of this.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 5 "BLOOD FEUD" 2013)
While Black Widow is under the influence of Dracula, the Avengers try to sedate her. As she breaks loose and tries to escape, she leaps on the Hulk's back when Thor throws Mjolnir to stop her. The results are bad as Mjolnir hits the Hulk right in the face and she leaps on the coasting hammer to get free.




BACK ISSUE #66 (2013) 
Cover of Back Issue magazine that shows a "Hulk vs Thor" Terry Austin inked cover from Marvel Treasury #9 (1976). And what is even more special about this magazine is the fact that it showcases my first nationally published work on "Superman vs Captain Marvel", so make sure you go and check it out.




MARVEL SUPERHEROES: WALL CLINGS: SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AVENGING FRIENDS (2013)
An Avenger story in this book shows Thor fighting with an illusion of the Hulk. While this may not be a real "Hulk vs Thor" encounter, it is still fun to see in such an obscure children's activity book



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 9 "DEPTH CHARGE" 2013)
While the Hulk is in battle with Attuma, Captain America orders Thor to try and stop the battle due to all the damage it is causing. As Thor flies into the fight, the Hulk will slap him aside and continue his fight with the Atlantean villain. After Thor slams into a car he is amazed by the Hulk's savage furiosity.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 11 "HULKED OUT HEROES" 2013)
When the Avengers become gamma-irradiated "Hulks", it's up to the real Hulk and the Black Widow to find a cure for them. The Hulk will slug it out with the other Hulk's as well as a Hulk-Thor. In the end, they cure the raging Avengers as Widow finds herself respecting the Hulk more than ever.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 14 "HULK'S DAY OUT" 2013)

The Hulk is seen rocketed back to Earth with amnesia. The Avengers have to retrace his steps to find out what happened to him and what is this strange storm beginning to tear the Earth apart. Soon they discover one of the events of the Hulk's day was that Iron Man told both Thor and him to go settle their endless debate on "who's stronger" on the moon. When they did, an alien creature attacked them and to warn the other Avengers Thor threw Mjolnir at the Hulk that sent him rocketing back to Earth. Unfortunately, Thor hit the brute so hard he temporarily lost his memory for a while.



MARVEL PUZZLE QUEST: DARK REIGN (2013)

This is a game for the IOS and PC. You must stop Norman Osborn and the Dark Avengers from taking control of the dangerous substance "ISO-8", by recruiting and leveling heroes and battling in match-three gameplay arenas. While you can have a "Hulk vs Thor", other teammates are included.
 


AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 16 "BRING ON THE BAD GUYS" 2014)

After the Avengers capture the Red Skull, everyone is told not to touch him because his armor is booby-trapped. Of course the Hulk does not listen and grabs the Skull's forearm to smash him. The Hulk is sent flying back and gets up angry. As the Hulk goes in for the kill, he is held back by Thor and Falcon to stop his attack. Luckily, this calms the Hulk down and he listens to the plan at hand.




HULK AND THE AGENTS OF S.M.A.S.H. (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 19 "FOR ASGARD" 2014)

When the Hulk and his agents of S.M.A.S.H. visit Asgard, Thor befriends Scar and makes him an honorary guard of the prison. While Hulk, Thor and others go off on a mission, Loki (who is a prisoner) manipulates Scar into drawing the Odin-Sword. This leads to chaos as it is against Asgardian law. Scar is then taken prisoner by Thor and the Asgardians and put in a cell. Since the Hulk doesn't like this and wants Scar set free, he attacks Thor and they slug it out. Eventually everyone gets into the battle until they team up and defeat Malekith, Loki and their army. In the end, Scar is pardoned.




AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 20 "ALL-FATHER'S DAY" 2014)

While the Hulk and Thor try to break free from Tony Stark's new invention, they get frustrated and start to attack each other. Soon Odin will appear and tells Thor he must return with him to Asgard, when Thor refuses, the Hulk attacks Odin. Thor responds by attacking the Hulk and they fight until Odin laughs and wants to learn more about Thor's allies. When he teleports the team to Central Park to test them, Mangog shows up and attacks. Eventually the Avengers and Odin defeat the beast and the All-Father is impressed with Thor's friends.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 22 "GUARDIANS AND SPACE KNIGHTS" 2014)

While the Avengers rocket through space on an adventure to save Iron Man, the Hulk and Thor argue to see who will buckle down first. Neither of them wants to as they begin to shove each other. Then through the turbulence they both crash about the ship. Later the Hulk will shove Thor out of the way continuing their never ending rivalry.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 26 "THE FINAL SHOWDOWN" 2014)

The Avengers fight the Kabal and defeat them. But when the Red Skull attacks empowered by the Tesseract, he wants to destroy the world. Skull takes control of the Hulk and puts him on a mindless rampage to kill the Avengers. Thor rises to the occasion and clashes with the Hulk until Captain America commands the brute to stand down. This apparently makes the Hulk to regain control of himself and eventually defeat the Red Skull.



MARVEL DISK WARS (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 6 "HULK'S GREAT RAMPAGE!" 2014)


MARVEL DISK WARS (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 7 "HULK VS CAPTAIN" 2014)

With the Hulk under the control of Diablo, he rampages across the city destroying everything in his path. It's up to Akira (with his friends Hikaru, Edward, Chris, and Jessica) with their Avengers DISKs to stop him. Iron Man and Thor make the first attack against the Hulk but are defeated. Soon Captain America enters the fight.

Episode 7 shows flashbacks to the Hulk fighting Iron Man and Thor.



MARVEL DISK WARS (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 14 "THE MAN WHO CONTROLS THE WHIPS OF DARKNESS" 2014)

All the kids play a video game where all the Avengers battle each other. While Thor and the Hulk fight it out, it's Thor who takes the victory due to a thunder storm that takes out all the Avengers.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 2 EPISODE: 1 "THE ARSENAL" 2014)

After Thor and the Hulk take care of the space drones and they stand side by side, the Hulk tells Thor that he didn't even break a sweat. As Thor looks at him, he tells the brute "Really. What's that smell?" The Hulk will try to punch the Thunder God. But this time, Thor blocks the blow with his Hammer and smiles.




MARVEL CONTEST OF THE CHAMPIONS MOBILE GAME (2014)

A mobile fighting game with over 50 characters to choose from. You can collect favorite superheroes and villains to build your team as you battle through iconic Marvel locations. You can have Thor and the Hulk fight each other or team up to battle together.



AVENGERS ASSEMBLE (SEASON: 2 EPISODE: 3 "VALHALLA CAN WAIT" 2014)

During a news talk show the host presses the immortal question ..."Who's stronger, the Hulk or Thor?" This, of course, causes them to fight. While the other Avengers try to stop them, we find out that the host is Loki and the Hulk and Thor are soon transported to Valhalla where they confront Hela. Here the loser of their fight gets to go free as the winner will spend eternity as her greatest warrior. Both combatants fight it out again until Thor convinces Hela that she has been tricked by Loki. This angers her as she transports them back to Earth where the Avengers regroup and Loki is eventually banished to Valhalla.


THE END??

To know the Marvel Universe you have to know about the "BIG 3". These 3 characters are at the top of the food-chain when it comes to levels of power for the greatest Marvel Heroes. These 3 characters strike the most fear and gain the most respect from opposing opposition. These 3 characters are without a doubt The Marvel hierarchy of ultimate power. They are The Incredible Hulk, The Mighty Thor and The Silver Surfer. Yup, these guys are the standard, and every other hero that wants to be deemed "super" is measured up against them to see how high up the ladder they are and regarded among peers. Here is how the "BIG 3" rank in certain categories between each other. 


Strength and Durability: Hulk  Skill and Mindset: Thor  Overall Versatility: Silver Surfer 

You can make an argument on who ranks second and third in each category between them, but there is no doubt that the character listed as number 1 is the rightful owner of that power-level. And if you read my other write ups; "Thor vs Silver Surfer" or "Hulk vs Silver Surfer", you will notice that each of the "BIG 3" is so insanely powerful that they balance themselves out when it comes to fighting each other. While Thor has the edge over Silver Surfer in their battles, Silver Surfer has the edge over the Hulk, which leads me to this write up where the Hulk has the edge over Thor.


For now, the “Hulk vs Thor” overall tally is a 2 to 2 tie in 34 official match ups, but I believe in my heart that those numbers are a little misleading because the Hulk has a overall edge with better showings in all their slugfests. Now I know Thor fanboys will shout, “I SAY THEE NAY!”, but when you look closely at all the actual fights and totally forget about any alternate reality battles and disregard the silly thoughts of Thor always holding back, you can see the answer is quite clear. It does show that Thor is physically not equal to the Hulk in terms of strength, durability and endurance, and how can he be? As the Hulk gets madder, he gets stronger and that's how his powers work. Thor even admits to the Hulk's superior strength (on many occasions) and has always been in awe of it. To top it all off, the Hulk’s got this crazy healing factor that makes it almost unfair. The truth is; it’s just Thor’s fight to lose the longer it lasts because that’s how the Hulk’s powers work. If given the chance, the Hulk will outlast and grow strong enough to conquer just about any opponent and Thor is no exception. Now Thor may have originally been created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby to be the strongest in the Marvel stable, but as time went on things changed for the Thunder God as his powers seemingly decreased as well as his popularity against other top-tier heroes.

Defenders #10 is always thrown into the conversation as the undeniable proof of Thor being the Hulk's equal in strength and it was a valid argument for years. But truth be told, that’s not the case anymore. The Mighty Thor #385 and all the fights thereafter (especially in The Incredible Hulk Annual 2001 and Hulk Smash Avengers #1) have put that “90 minute test of strength” debate to rest and I know it’s hard for most Thor fans to admit. Cannon has now spawned all the cartoons, animated features and movies you see of the Hulk currently beating up Thor or at least showing superior strength and durability (we even see it on a world-wide scale in The Avengers movie in 2012). It is also seen in the controversial comic; Hulk: Let The Battle Begin #1, where the Hulk definitively out-muscles and pounds on Thor for the first real win in this rivalry. I know it’s hard for Thor fans to see this because it does drop Thor down a notch from his “majestic” Silver Age days.

But for me, what always made Thor capable of being a match for the Hulk (or almost anyone else) are three things; 1.) The war-hammer, Mjolnir, this tremendous weapon makes Thor all powerful and grants him such an array of versatile powers that I believe it makes Thor one of the most powerful heroes in the Marvel Universe. 2.) Fighting ability, Thor has thousands of years of training and that makes Thor crazy tough in a slugfest (I hate when some writers sometime down play this skill, it drives me nuts). 3.) Lastly, and most importantly, Thor’s never say die, warriors’ heart! Just about nobody in comics has the fighting spirit of Thor. He keeps coming and coming despite the odds and defeats. Whether it’s to protect the innocents, his name, his heritage, his ego or his glory it doesn't matter, Thor just keeps coming back for more. It’s part of his mindset, so when he eventually dies and goes to Valhalla, a throne of his glorious conquests will await him (it’s actually beautiful when I think about it). These are the things that Thor brings to the table that make him so awesome. And this is also why he never uses his “other” powers that Mjolnir grants him (like the Godforce, etc.) because Thor wants to beat the Hulk in physical combat!!

When Thor fanboys complain about how Thor should always beat the Hulk and doesn't because Marvel always protects the more popular characters, lets not forget that The Thunder God has always been able to maintain an edge over these Super-Heavyweights; The Silver Surfer (go see my write up), Sub-Mariner, Black Bolt, Hercules, Juggernaut, Abomination, Gladiator and “Gem Powered” Drax the Destroyer, all who have given the Hulk trouble in the past. As I see it, no one should be complaining because Thor cleans up in just about every other fight. 

And ol' Goldilocks will always be a champion of good and one of the most respected and powerful beings on Earth (and in comics). But when you are talking about pure raw-strength, durability and stamina is anyone the Hulk’s equal? So to put an end to one of the frequent arguments in this rivalry, I’ll admit that the Hulk is the stronger and more durable while Thor is the more powerful and talented. When you look at all the fights with unbiased eyes this observation is just so obvious. So expect them to be peers with some advantages over the other until the end of time.

And finally, with “Hulk vs Thor” being a Marvel tradition, there’s always the next big fight that looms within an upcoming funny book, cartoon or movie. Let’s see how they go and what new arguments come with it. Regardless of who wins or loses, it’s a tradition all of us fans alike are always waiting for.


Agree?? Disagree?? Let’s hear it fanboys…



Check out other "DEFINITIVE WRITE UPS" here:

Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/06/jack-kirby-vs-alex-toth.html

Superman vs Captain Marvel
Thor vs Ulik
Hulk vs Juggernaut




John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central
John Cimino is a Silver and Bronze Age comic, cartoon and memorabilia expert that runs a business called "Saturday Morning Collectibles". He buys, sells and gives appraisals on everything pop culture, so if you got something special, let him know about it. He contributes articles to ALTER EGO, BACK ISSUE Magazine and THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR from TwoMorrows Publishing and has appeared on the AMC reality show Comic Book Men. He has written and starred in the "Hero Envy" webisode series, is the host of the Reckless Sidekick "Swass-Cast" and has contributed to the "Hero Envy" comic book. John also thinks he's really Captain Marvel, people just don't have the heart to tell him he's just an obsessed fanboy that loves to play superheroes with his daughter Bryn. Contact him at johnstretch@live.com or follow on twitter at @Elastic_Hulk and have some fun.

121 comments:

  1. Marvel's super heavyweight division consists of three mainstays, not two: you factor the Silver Surfer too lightly.

    Thor was beaten by Thor is SS #4 for one, although the Surfer was powered up by Loki, he had also just been depowered by the Sonic Shark. Depowered to such a degree that he was forced to steal clothing to blend in with humans, whereas pre-power down ol' chrome-dome could assume the appearance of a billboard model at will.

    Thor hasn't "always" held a winning record against the Surfer, as stated the Surfer looked better in SS #4, an insane Thor looked better during the Blood & Thunder arc, while they just looked equal in The Mighty Thor. There is NO precedent for either of these guys looking better than one another.

    OTOH, there is precedent for the Surfer looking directly superior to the Hulk. Tales to Astonish #93 has the Surfer blatantly KO'ing the Hulk, AND the Hulk expressing disbelief that the Surfer remains unhurt after the Hulk hit him "with all [his] strength."

    Hulk #250 has the Surfer curing Banner of the Hulk, stopping a Hulk punch mid-swing and draining him of all gamma radiation, etc.

    Incredible Hulk #95 has a Silver Surfer, using nothing but his physical strength (power cosmic usage prevented by an obedience disk) engaging the Hulk, Korg, Miek, Hiroim, and the Brood simultaneously and MORE than holding his own, with Hiroim actually claiming they were ALL "dead" if the Surfer was "allowed another pass."

    Silver Surfer #125 shows how easily the Surfer is capable of KILLING the Hulk if he wished too.

    In truth, there has always been an eternal debate as to which hero is the most powerful, and it usually comes down to three guys: Thor, Silver Surfer or Hulk.

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    1. Agree on the SS simply being out of hulk's league altogether. Hulk is pretty much helpless vs the SS. Thor, on the other hand, isn't.

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    2. How correct you are my friend, they are the "BIG 3". So please read these and find out why the balance of power is always even between them. Hulk > Thor, Thor > Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer > Hulk;

      Thor vs Silver Surfer
      http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/05/thor-vs-silver-surfer.html

      Hulk vs Silver Surfer
      http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/07/hulk-vs-silver-surfer.html

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  2. More match-ups, more reviews just like this.

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  3. Marvel know that Hulk is a one-dimensional hero, nevertheless popular with kids and vicarious adults and of great iconic value to the company. If you take away the notion that he's the preeminent Marvel strength character, you weaken the brand to that of nothing. That's why Marvel writers have gotten away with liberties more recently.

    ANYONE with a semblance of logic and common sense understands that when you take two opponents of roughly equal strength and durability but then add 5000 y/old warrior skills, massive energy projection, flight, inter-dimensional teleportation, total command over weather and, oh, yes, a virtually indestructible enchanted striking weapon, you're no longer seeing an equal battle. FACT: Stan Lee created Thor to trump Hulk. A preeminent warrior god will always beat an irradiated man.

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    1. ANYONE with a semblance of logic and common sense understands that when you take two opponents of roughly equal strength and durability but then add the capacity for infinite strength to the one opponent, the other opponent's advantages start sliding.
      FACT: Stan Lee's most recent Hulk VS. Thor battle had Hulk looking WAY better than Thor. A preeminent warrior god has never clearly beat an irradiated man.

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    2. key word is potential for infinite strength you can only get so mad and stan lee isn't writing these stories anymore if he was thor would win everytime know your facts

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  4. "Hulk #250 has the Surfer curing Banner of the Hulk, stopping a Hulk punch mid-swing and draining him of all gamma radiation, etc. "

    The Surfer only stopped Hulks punch after he was powered up by gamma radiation.

    "Incredible Hulk #95 has a Silver Surfer, using nothing but his physical strength (power cosmic usage prevented by an obedience disk) engaging the Hulk, Korg, Miek, Hiroim, and the Brood simultaneously and MORE than holding his own, with Hiroim actually claiming they were ALL "dead" if the Surfer was "allowed another pass.""

    The Surfer also had a weapon in this fight that was glowing with energy (judging by the art and the colouring said energy was the Power Cosmic) and began the fight by attacking Hulk when Hulk thought they were friends. He then defeats Hulks crew pretty handily which frankly he should. Theres nothing to indicate that Hiroims comment refers to the Hulk himself who was by far the most powerful of the Warbound, and plenty of reason to think it referred to people like Hiroim and Miek who weren't much more powerful than normal humans at the time. Though the Hulks final attacks on Surfer were unexpected (much like Surfers opening move) they nevertheless left Surfer lying very much unconscious at the bottom of a hole in the ground.

    "Silver Surfer #125 shows how easily the Surfer is capable of KILLING the Hulk if he wished too."

    No. It shows Surfer CLAIMING that he could do so but offers nothing to back that up as anything other than a boast. If you read the issue Hulk clearly tells the Surfer that he is dying because he has been separated from Banner.

    Your list of encounters omits other incidents that favour Hulk or even imply Hulk is the more powerful of the two, such as the time when the Defenders, including Hulk and Surfer, had their powers drained by the Kree Starwheel. Surfer was helpless while only Hulk managed to overpower the device. Surfer and Namor working together have also failed to restrain the Hulk and Dr Strange had to admonish them that resorting to the use of force "is not how you deal with the Hulk".

    "In truth, there has always been an eternal debate as to which hero is the most powerful, and it usually comes down to three guys: Thor, Silver Surfer or Hulk."

    I agree with this. I just dont think the encounters between these two have been anywhere near as onesided as you make them out to be.

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  5. "ANYONE with a semblance of logic and common sense understands that when you take two opponents of roughly equal strength and durability but then add 5000 y/old warrior skills, massive energy projection, flight, inter-dimensional teleportation, total command over weather and, oh, yes, a virtually indestructible enchanted striking weapon, you're no longer seeing an equal battle."

    Sure. I suppose its a good thing that they aren't of roughly equal strength and durability then isn't it? ;-)

    "FACT: Stan Lee created Thor to trump Hulk. A preeminent warrior god will always beat an irradiated man."

    And yet...

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    1. actually lets get one thing straight here,Stan lee did NOT create Thor,he "borrowed" the idea from Nordic mythos.
      and its quite retarded having Comic Thor speak using shakespearean english.whats that all about?
      Fact,stan lee had Hulk "job" for Thor so the character could sell comic's.to put it another way,he would say just about anything to shift his comic's and young impressionable kid's for that time period would have believed just about anything stan lee told them.to me Thor v Hulk fights have always been the equivalent of a guy with a m16 assault rifle fighting a pro boxer.for a god with "5000" years of fighting experience you would be led to believe that Thor could take Hulk in hand to hand combat,sadly that is not the case.

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    2. I really wish people would research before spouting nonsense. Thor has gone toe to toe with celestials and destroyed planets with his bare hands. Hulk would get flattened by a celestial

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    3. I really wish you would do research too before lowballing the Hulk while ignoring he fought Onslaught when he drained Franklin Richards who is equal to a celestial. Thor has lost to Celestials most of the time. Hulk destroyed planets by throwing rocks into them as seen in his fight against Gardener.

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  6. I read hulk and Thor and am a fan of both heroes. Hulks strength levels in the last few issues (and in the past issues)literally place him on a level that surpasses any enraged Thor or other hero (and many hyper powered opponents. Marvel has written the hulk in the last few months to be a machine of destruction, an utter planetary powerhouse. He was able to destroy a planet by colliding in mid-air with Red She Hulk. Gamma Radiation is the most powerful energy in the universe....(fiction and non-fiction). Thor vs Hulk in a strength debate is like Chocolate vs. cat litter in a taste debate.

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    1. but its not all about strenght.

      THOR NEVER USES HIS FRIGGIN GOD BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      OR TIME CONTROL

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  7. This film not only represented, but represents to this day, the very best of what it means to be a sci-fi epic. Though revolutionary in the realm of special effects, groundbreaking in other areas and breathtakingly creative, it does not rely solely on its original themes or new quirks to achieve acclaim, as many "good" sci-fi films do. This film, combines the best of science fiction with a story and a spirit that has meaning-- an underdog struggle, a coming of age tale, a morality play, behind an incredibly rich backdrop and a timeless cast of characters that fits it perfectly.

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  8. For A Hulk Vs Thor review - view - http://www.comicbookandmoviereviews.com/2011/10/hulk-vs-thor.html

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  9. I got this sent to me and I thought I should post it here, very interesting...

    Which is the Greatest Rivalry of all time Superman vs Captain Marvel or Hulk vs Thor?

    Hulk vs Thor, no contest because:

    1)Thor and Hulk are traditionally written as characters of great passion/emotion who will snap on someone even when they aren't in a fight. Superman and CM...not so much.

    2)Thor and Hulk genuinely dislike each other much of the time: A)Thor viewing Hulk as a brutish, ill-mannered lout who threatens public safety (even if unintentionally) and needs to be put in his (mortal) place + B)Hulk seeing Thor as an arrogant braggart, unfairly contemptuous of him and delusional to think Thor can match strength with him. On the other side, it takes really specific plot circumstances for Supes and CM to come to blows and usually reluctantly and/or mind-controlled at at that. No real bad fellings between them.

    3) Thor and (especially) Hulk *really* care about who's stronger/better in fight. Supes and CM only in a friendly, teasing sense.

    4) Thor and Hulk are actual rivals in popularity among comics fans (and now movigoers too). Supes and CM...are not. Once CM was actually more popular than Superman (saleswise, at least) but the character never recovered from the legal beatdown DC put on Fawcett which resulted in him being unpublished for a couple of decades. And since DC bought the character, they have never really been able to recreate the mojo thet made him a sensation in the first place. Movies/TV series? Supes, about 13-2 since the late 50's (that's counting each Superman/whoever, Superfriends, Justice League animated runs all together as 1 series) and nothing for CM but guest shots the last couple of decades...

    5) This Board. Thor/Hulk can fill a page in a minute (seemingly). Superman/Captain Marvel...*crickets chirping*

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    1. you are biased toward hulk due to his name being mentioned in your nick name. you also dont mention how thor uses 1/3 of his power when he fights mortals like hulk. that right there shows thor is more powerful than hulk cause hulk can only handle 1/3 of thor. thor also never uses all his abilities in his fights with hulk. the writers limit thors power against hulk cause thor would defeat hulk too easily and anger alot of fans. writers limit thor to just using brute strength most of the time and never let him use his full potential.

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  10. I agree that popularity has played a major result in how these things have ended up. A prime example was the Thor vs. Superman in the Avengers JLA crossover. In reality the Hulk is a menace that would have been eradicated a long time ago, and it would have come down to Thor having to kill him. How many thousands has he killed in his rampages, plus billions to trillions in damages. The Hulk would not have been allowed to live. I really think, Thor, using all of his powers at his disposal would defeat the Hulk, Silver Surfer and Superman. I think Stan Lee wisely kept it a draw, it kept you coming back. When I was a kid Thing vs Hulk was big, it hasn't been for a long time because the Thing essentially always gets flattened. Even when a powered up Thing battled a weaker Grey Hulk, he still lost. That's when you knew it was over. One of the other battles that Thor should have always come out on top on was the battles with Hercules. Again Thor equals him in strength but they never quite let Thor put him away. Although Mr. Hyde and some other minor villains beat Hercules into a coma. Which brings up another question: Thor fought Zeus quite well in Annual 8, for a long period of time. Didn't Zeus just pummel the World Breaker Hulk recently? I guess it comes down to who writes it...

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  11. i have a question about thor... can thor fly without his hammer or can he command thunder without his hammer?? is he not the God of thunder...

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  12. Yes he can and he has been shown to do both of these on occasions. But the flying part is a little tricky as the majority of writers don't have him able to fly without the aid of his hammer because Stan Lee originally had him unable to fly without it. I have also heard fanboys saying how Thor floats on winds he summons but cannot fly totally. For me, I have to go with the majority showings which is Thor cannot fly without it. But I guess it's take your pick...

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  13. ah ok thank u...i wish he could fly... what kind of a God of thunder is he if he cant :( he could be like storm from the xmen who can fly and commands the thunder. that why i like hulk more coz thor relies so much in his hammer.

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  14. if u have a link sir, can u show me when he used his powers without his hammer? thank u

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  15. At the end of the day, Thor winds up facing threats far far more powerful than the Hulk as a rule. Beings such as Ymir, Surtur, the Dark Gods, the Destroyer, Infinity (Odin when he went mad), The Midgard Serpent, a Thanosi, and more recently, Glory, and Chaos King. He's intended to be Marvel's premiere hero went it comes to single handedly facing down cosmic threats which endanger Asgard, Earth, or beyond.

    Furthermore, Thor, when he fights Hulk, doesn't even use all of his powers, instead wanting to engage him in melee with his fists and Mjolnir. And as this article showed, generally draws or stalemates him. And this is Thor without invoking his wide array of powers. I think the fact that Thor hangs with Hulk while handicapping himself says a lot.

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    1. "Furthermore, Thor, when he fights Hulk, doesn't even use all of his powers, instead wanting to engage him in melee with his fists and Mjolnir. And as this article showed, generally draws or stalemates him. And this is Thor without invoking his wide array of powers. I think the fact that Thor hangs with Hulk while handicapping himself says a lot."

      If you're saying Thor is 'holding back' when he faces Hulk then I don't think that is accurate at all. You could equally say that when they have faced each other the fights have gone as they have to show they are evenly matched.

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    2. "If you're saying Thor is 'holding back' when he faces Hulk then I don't think that is accurate at all."

      Is not Thor 'holding back', when both comes to fight, Thor fights with all (his strength), but he left aside his 'wide array of powers' (his other abilities), so if he use all then you can clearly see Hulk being overpowered. Remember The Void almost killed Hulk and Thor killed The Void (saving Sentry this way). When The Sentry alone was almost as strong as WWH.

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  16. Great work. I'd summarize it like this:

    Stan Lee clearly intended that Thor w/ his hammer was the most powerful superhero, with the Silver Surfer #2. Without his hammer, Thor was even w/ Hercules and the Hulk, who were even with each other.

    Then, and alas, inferior creative talents came along to revise the characters, essentially deifying the Hulk and diminishing Thor and Hercules. One hopes that subsequent creators will correct this very regrettable trend.

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  17. Very good article! I personally would like to see the "Hulk" ranks cleaned up. There are too many of them. I would really like to see Thor take out the Red Hulk for good.

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  18. Most writers are not too smart. With all of Thor's powers at his disposal, Thor can easily send down lightning after lightning striking the Hulk as Thor can sit there and have a mug of ale. Ok, I know that would be boring, but if you're a good writer, you can come up with other scenarios to fight the Hulk. Thor and Hulk can slug it out for a while, but when all said and done, Thor should just finish the fight by just transporting him into the Sun.

    If I was Thor, and my opponent is Hulk, and I know it's going to be an all out brawl, ok, because I have a big ego too and I want to see who of us is stronger, let's go at it, but knowing that between us, we can practically destroy everything around us, I as Thor, would be smart enough to protect the innocents, just send the Hulk into another dimension, into the Sun, into Space, anywhere, to finally get rid of him (if he wants him dead).

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  19. The Might Thor #73 - I have to disagree with you there. This issue was in continuity with the regular Marvel universe. It wasn't a "What If?" or an Ultimate line, just some dream. It really happen and finally, with the Odinpower (or was it from the Designate?), Thor went back in time to make sure he and Olson didn't get separated and set it back in motion. I asked Dan Jurgens during a convention and he said it was in continuity, but going back in time and changing is just another part of the story.

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  20. Actually, the Thor:Lord of Asgard vs Hulk and Thing should be counted as part of main continuity because the main story happened in 616 continuity....the fact that future event was wiped out is of no moment because it was not a "what if" story. It really happened in 616 reality...Thor just altered the future by going back in time. I say, Thor 3, hulk 2

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  21. Of course, recently Zeus slapped the Hulk silly. It wasn't even funny. Hulk (for decent reason) goaded Zeus, the actual Zeus, into a physical fight, and there weren't any complications like some mystical weakening spell or whatever.

    Zeus finally says, okay, if you want it, whelp, let me show you how a *god* can fight.

    Beat the ever living crap out of the Hulk. Could have killed him at any second. Tied him up to a rock pace Prometheus and let the healing factor regrow his liver so that it could continually be eaten by vultures.

    Hulk did his whole 'get mad get stronger' thing, it mattered not, not one teeny tiny bit

    It's kind of weird to compare these things, because in the end Hulk is a sort of 'science fiction' powered character, whereas the gods can specifically act outside of and manipulate the physical reality within which real mortals like Hulk resign.

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  22. I don't really get the point.the writer state that the argument of Thor not using His full strength is a fallacy. It has never been it has been made clear at least three time in the comic.In fact it is the current hulk's writers who made it different and therefore made a huge change in the marvel universe by decreasing Thor strength.Everyone reading the Thor by Stan lee knows that Thor is stronger. It has always be clear than Thor wasn't at full power against the hulk.Also the argument of hulk having an limitless strength is new. hulk has a maximum which is the higher degree of his anger.The real fallacy is to thing that someone could get angrier and angrier without limit.The maximum strength of the hulk is the higher degree of his anger .The question is can any hero stand toe to toe with hulk at his maximum anger.I believe so no one never saw Thor in his berseker rage where he is ten time stronger than a normal Thor who is more than able to handle an angry hulk.Also i am sure that a full blow from Thor without restraint from maljonir would knock down the hulk and even killed him.Iron man did it already in the regular marvel continuity how come Thor never did it ??when he is far more powerful ?

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  23. To anonymous 1 October 2011:

    "Gamma Radiation is the most powerful energy in the universe....(fiction and non-fiction). "

    ...and there does your credibility.

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  24. You need to rewatch the Hulk vs THOR fight in the movie.

    The Hulk lands ONE punch against THOR, ONE. That is after THOR stops a punch from the Hulk with ONE hand, and then tries to reason with him, and pushes the Hulk [who is trying to squish down on THOR] with both hands, and THEN smacks THOR in the face.

    That is the first, and last, time Hulk hits THOR.

    In sequence:

    THOR tackles the Hulk through a metal wall before Hulk kills Black Widow. They pace around each other for a couple seconds. Hulk swings twice, THOR dodges both attacks, THOR punches Hulk in the face. Hulk tries to punch down at THOR, THOR blocks it with ONE hand and says "We're not your enemies, Banner. Try to think!" Hulk is pushing down on THOR and then THOR lifts up Hulks attack with 2 arms pushing the Hulks attack up. [this is the only test of direct strength between the two, when THOR one-hands a punch from the Hulk] Then immediately after, Hulk punches THOR through some containers. This is where THOR gets up immediately and smiles, and calls Mjolnir. Hulk runs towards THOR, and THOR uppercuts Hulk to the face with his hammer. Hulk gets dazed a bit and goes back about 20 feet into a plane. Hulk gets mad. He throws a piece of a plane at THOR, which THOR dodges underneath by sliding under. THOR then throws Mjolnir at Hulk, who tries to catch it, but is thrown to the ground because of it. He tries to pick it up, but cannot, and is pulling himself into the ground. THOR runs and knees Hulk to the face. THOR picks up Mjolnir and jumps on Hulks back putting him into a chokehold trying to knock him out. Hulk jumps straight up to the floor above them knocking both to the ground above. As they are both getting up, Hulk grabs THOR and tosses him up and to the side about 10-12 feet, and gets shot at by the fighter jet.

    The End.

    in NO way did the Hulk "win" that fight, he barely got anything in in the fight. It is at the very least a draw, and you could easily say THOR showed himself to be equally as strong [or slightly stronger, one handing a punch], all while holding back, and not using ANY of his ridiculously overpowered abilities with Mjolnir as it could cause more collateral damage or destroy the ship. And this while the Hulk clearly isnt [as he never does] holding back.

    Next time you watch it, focus on it and you'll be as surprised as I was the 2nd and 3rd time.

    as for comic book THOR? The hulk has been shown to be pierced and hurt by weapons FAR less powerful than Mjolnir. A thousand-thousand suns = a dead Hulk. or a god-blast, drawing upon the eternal-life force which is half from an eternal goddess around since the beginning of the universe, and half the odin-force.

    UnforuNately, the writers like to COMPLETELY forget/ignore all of THORs ridiculously overpowered abilities in Versus fights... and we all know why. Don't upset the moneywell. Would be a quick fight, wouldnt sell comics, and would piss off a lot of people.

    Its the same reasoning as how Batman beat the Hulk... literally by kicking the Hulk in the stomach and knocking the wind out of him. wtf ey. wtf indeed.

    also, THOR has lightspeed reactions, can swing Mjolnir at twice the speed of light, and throw 2-3 times the speed of light. They always seem to ignore speed in THOR vs Hulk fights and Superman vs Hulk fights.

    Again, it's to sell comic books, nobody likes seeing their fav hero get destroyed and never land a punch.


    Interesting read though <3

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    1. EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      FINALLY SOMEONE IS SMART

      Delete
    2. Just focussing on the Avengers fight description theres a few details you are missing/have wrong IMO.

      "THOR tackles the Hulk through a metal wall before Hulk kills Black Widow. They pace around each other for a couple seconds. Hulk swings twice, THOR dodges both attacks, THOR punches Hulk in the face."

      Theres another swingin backhand from Hulk here that Thor dodges/ducks.

      "Hulk tries to punch down at THOR, THOR blocks it with ONE hand"

      After the block Thor immediately brings his other arm into the struggle as Hulk begins pushing down.

      "and says "We're not your enemies, Banner. Try to think!" Hulk is pushing down on THOR and then THOR lifts up Hulks attack with 2 arms pushing the Hulks attack up. [this is the only test of direct strength between the two, when THOR one-hands a punch from the Hulk]"

      Thor is using both arms in the contest but he doesn't push Hulks arm up with both arms - he stands up.

      "Then immediately after, Hulk punches THOR through some containers. This is where THOR gets up immediately and smiles, and calls Mjolnir."

      I wouldn't say he gets up immediately. He tumbles across the floor then theres a jump cut to Thor on his hands and knees. He wipes blood from his nose.

      "Hulk runs towards THOR, and THOR uppercuts Hulk to the face with his hammer. Hulk gets dazed a bit and goes back about 20 feet into a plane. Hulk gets mad. He throws a piece of a plane at THOR, which THOR dodges underneath by sliding under. THOR then throws Mjolnir at Hulk, who tries to catch it, but is thrown to the ground because of it."

      I don't see the "tries to catch it" bit. He does catch it.

      "He tries to pick it up, but cannot, and is pulling himself into the ground. THOR runs and knees Hulk to the face. THOR picks up Mjolnir and jumps on Hulks back putting him into a chokehold trying to knock him out. Hulk jumps straight up to the floor above them knocking both to the ground above. As they are both getting up, Hulk grabs THOR"

      They go through several levels apparently. We don't see Hulk get up but its pretty clear he is on his feet before Thor has even attempted to stand. This matches up with the scene at the very beginning of the fight, after Thor tackles him through the wall where Hulk is almost on his feet before Thor has started to get up.

      "and tosses him up and to the side about 10-12 feet, and gets shot at by the fighter jet. "

      He slams him once into the ground, then he picks Thor up again and throws him into the wall/ceiling. He begins walking towards Thor. The jet opens fire on his back. He turns round and begins to walk towards the jet. Then we see Thor who is now crouched behind cover dive out of the path of the gunfire.

      Delete
    3. actually in the movie thor only needed one hand to stop hulks punch but used his other hand to hold down the hulks arm so hulk couldn't move it and then stood up. Thor also caught the punch on his wrist and when we caught the punch he was falling down so the hulk is gonna be able to push down but thor showed he was equal in strength by one handing hulks punch and stopping it to the point where hulk couldn't move it. but after thor put his other hand on hulks arm, we saw hulk was still trying to puch down on thors wrist but he couldn't move it so thor one handed a punch and kept at one point. it doesn't matter about the second hand holding down hulks arm because hulk was still pushing down on thors wrist but he couldn't anymore because thor was equal to him in strength.

      Delete
    4. Another Thor fanboy grasping at straws to prove his case. Hahahahahaha, don't you guys get tired of being disappointed all the time? Must be a tough life. Let's see, how many times did Thor get knocked out and humbly defeated within the last 3 years alone?? Hahahahahahahahahaha.

      Delete
  25. You should also look at all the HeroClix Minis in the comparison..

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  26. In the movie you get the feeling that Hulk's blows had more impact than Thor's. Thor hit him a number of times but hulk was never really hurt, just slightly dazed and for a brief moment at that.
    But after seeing Thor getting hurled and manhandled by hulk you could see Thor's face was kinda scratch and he was puffing. A jet had to come and distract the Hulk with a hail of bullets.
    I would have to give hulk the feral strength advantage in the movies.
    I would really like to have seen Thor fight intelligently against Hulk in the movieverse sometime.
    It really should be a one sided affair. Fly up, lightning blast with full force... hulk revers to banner. Or even do what Thor did to the destroyer, whirlwind him up, in hulks case just lightning him. Hulk cannot use his strength suspended in mid air. It would be the end right there. I doubt it would be that simple though. If I was the writer I might be hesitant to do that too, because its just not cool to bitchslap a superhero like that.

    The comics have definitely evolved and Hulk is the stronger and more powerful of the 2. In todays MCU Thor could never hope to beat the hulk because 1)Hulk is more popular 2) Is generally written to be stronger. For Thor to beat hulk now, it just means less comic sales.

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  27. I´ve read the different "vs." stories about the Hulk vs Thor and Hercules, and even though I´m without a doubt a Hulk-fan, I also have to put one thing into question that is often mentioned by Thor and Herc-fans, that would be the fact that "just because they are gods, they have to be the mightiest (and therefore stronger than the Hulk)"
    I really disagree, since there are a whole lotta gods out there (greek, asguardian and so on) do that mean that they are all stronger than all mortal heroes just because they are gods? And also, just because they are gods doesn´t mean they have to be very strong at all, just immortals/livving in heaven/have power over flight with winged sandals/ and thousands of riddiculous powers that gods are said to have.
    Ok, both Thor and Hercules are "fighting-gods" sure, but just because they are gods doesn´t mean they have to be stronger than a mortal hero, that´s all I´m saying.
    Should also put in that even though I´m a fan of Hulk, I do think some of his feats he accomplished mentioned before, are just plain stupid and riddiculous "Hulk has applied pressure to the entire space-time structure to save the Defenders from being sucked into a fissure, broken up the space-time continuum, supported a 150 billion ton mountain on his shoulders, easily closed the doors to a nuclear core that Thor and the Thing together could not budge, held together the tectonic plates of a planet, pushed two spheres of matter and anti-matter apart, reflected Gladiator's ocular beams back into both eyes and then knocked him out, knocked out Silver Surfer with three blows, almost broke the east coast, threatening to break the entire planet, and so on."
    But for the sake of comic stories and iconic values, there has to be one who is strongest/fastest/biggest/baddest, and I just think Hulk fits being the strongest.
    Well that´s my two cents.
    /Tommy

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    1. Totally disagree with you bringing up the Surfer here. Any writer can write whatever fable they want and find a way to justify it. So, it's not a stretch to write a story where the Hulk pummels the Surfer, no matter how unrealistic that may be. But the FACT is that the Surfer has unlimited COSMIC POWER that can suck out the gamma radiation from the Hulk whenever he wants, rendering him as helpless as a puny Bruce Banner. No way the Hulk can EVER beat the Surfer -- unless the writer has an agenda.

      Also, have you checked out the Hulk's fights against Superman? The Hulk was DESTROYED by Supes EVERY single time.

      Yes, there must a strongest and baddest hero on the block, but, whoeve that is, it's NOT the Hulk.

      Delete
    2. "Also, have you checked out the Hulk's fights against Superman? The Hulk was DESTROYED by Supes EVERY single time."

      Not really.

      Hulk vs Pre-Crisis Superman: Superman seems to be much stronger than the Marvel hero of this time. The Hulk seems to stun him with an unexpected blow but when he is ready Superman can plant himself in one spot, let Hulk hit him and Hulk cant move him. However Hulk starts getting angrier and stronger until he seems to be reaching Pre Crisis Superman's strength

      Dc vs Marvel: Superman wins a close fight and punches out the Merged Hulk. Its a clear win for Superman but its not like it was some kind of blowout like Green Lantern vs the Silver Surfer seemed to be.

      Hulk vs Superman TPB: Hulk and Superman have three scuffles. In the first Superman grabs Hulk from behind. Hulk outraged breaks the grip and throws Superman into deep space. Superman is impressed with Hulks strength and speed. In the second one Superman rams Hulk unexpectedly at great speed and then while Hulk still doesnt know what happening picks him up and throws him away. In the last they pound on each other for a bit while Superman tries to tell the Hulk about Luthor's plan. So basically one scene has Hulk look good. One scene has Superman look good and one scene is inconclusive.

      So Superman narrowly beat Hulk in DC vs Marvel and Pre-Crisis Superman was initially much stronger than a normal Savage Hulk (as he is also much stronger than modern Superman) but its not true that "The Hulk was DESTROYED by Supes EVERY single time" in their three meetings.

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  28. You are right about how popularity affects a hero, Spider-man was a match for anyone in the Marvel Universe, even though he's just considered a "street level" character. The same can be said for Batman in the DC universe. Spider-man has even has victories over Hulk and had given Thor and Silver Surfer a run for their money.

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  29. First of all... thanks for this great articel... I have always loved the Thor vs Hulk match up... and this has left me catch up on some issues I did not have. I do have to argue with you on Hulk Annual 2001... I think you missed the morale of that story... I have Thor winning the physcial, but at such a cost that he damages the very people he sought to create, and thus it is Hulk who wins because (not the physcical fight), but because he made Thor forget his values... a point depicted on the next to last page...

    Thanks!

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  30. Wow! What a concise Hulk Thor post.

    When you have the time pal, please check out my site - http://www.comicbookandmoviereviews.com/

    Plus feel free to follow it on Google Friend Connect, you may get some followers in turn.

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  31. I'm also a fan of both, but Thor ought to just squash hulk like a bug. Zap! Dead/atomised Hulk. That fast.

    He won't, but he could, anytime he wanted to. It makes these fights with hulk rather silly indeed.

    I'd agree that Hulk EVENTUALLY would become stronger & tougher than Thor, but every "fight" the 2 have is simply about Thor's ego.

    Being more powerful doesn't make a character better however, so both of these 2 need some damn fine writers to make reading their exploits worthwhile. Thor doubly so.

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  32. I generally agree with your excellent piece. Just a few thoughts:

    1) Thor #385 BEST illustrates where these two characters are right now: Hulk physically stronger and Thor needing Mjolnir to beat him, but more powerful overall. The sterngth difference was widened in the Avengers movie, making Mjolnir even more important for Thor to compete against the Hulk

    2) Lee & Kirby, however, did conceive Thor as being the STRONGEST, as well as the most powerful, of all Marvel's heroes. But, in the early 1960's, Thor's weird look (long blond hair) and strange speech patterns conspired against him and he just could not reach the levels of popularity enjoyed by The Hulk & Spidey; this necessitated the Thor/Hulk adjustment to please the bigger fan base (although it’s a testament to Thor’s quality as a hero that Lee & Kirby always stayed with Thor almost CONTINUOUSLY through 1970 while eventually leaving other titles). I guess they figured the most powerful hero would pull in the most fans, like in DC's Superman, but it never worked out for Thor.

    3) I believe that there are four major versions of Thor: the basic Thor that we’re most familiar with, the ODINFORCE Thor, King Thor and Runes Thor. Hulk only enjoys the strength edge over regular Thor and I believe that ANY version of Hulk would be beaten by any of the other three versions of Thor. If Odin is the equal of Zeus (both Sky Gods) and Thor is infused by Odin’s power, then we can see how Zeus’ annihilation of Hulk foretells what could happen to the Hulk & the more powerful versions of Thor. Moreover, Odin force Thor destroyed the Red Hulk, which is a stronger monster than the Green/Grey Hulk.

    4) The key to this rivalry, however, is Mjolnir and it is this weapon that makes Thor the #1 hero in all comics, including Hulk, SilverSurfer, Superman and Capt Marvel.

    5) Talking of Superman, how about a Superman vs Thor & Superman vs Hulk?

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  33. I respectfully, but completely, DISAGREE with your assertion that Thor has not been mostly written DOWN and held BACK during his run, in general, and against Hulk, specifically. You say not to make assumptions based on just gut feeling but on the actual events in the comics. Okay, let’s look at that.

    In the beginning, 1962, Lee & Kirby created Thor to be the strongest and most powerful hero in the Marvel Universe, but by early 1965 he was only one of the strongest. That is a CLEAR case that Thor was written down from the very BEGINNING for political/financial expediency. The Hulk was more popular and famous and having his butt kicked by Thor would have crimped his success. After all, nobody like a loser, right?

    You also say that Defenders #10 has been supplanted by more recent events, making Hulk more powerful than Thor. That’s rubbish. Thor has defeated opponents much more powerful than Hulk: For example, Bor (a Sky God), the Silver Surfer (a Galactic Herald), the powered-up Hulk of Fear Itself, Rulk, DC’s Capt Marvel and, most impressively, Glory, another celestial herald with Sky-God power; and, of course, the Midgard Serpent. When Thor assumed the Odin Force and when he became King Thor, he obtained Sky-Father status, in addition, when he obtained the Runes Power; he became even more powerful than a Sky-God. So, to say that a hero that can defeat the Midgard Serpent, Capt Marvel, Glory and Bor couldn’t kill the Hulk would be ridiculous, UNLESS he’s written down and held back. The Thor in the Avengers movie and in the Hulk vs Thor DVD is NOT the warrior who can bring down the Surfer but a written DOWN version.

    By the way, Beta Ray Bill, who has NEVER been written down or held back like Thor has, has taken on and beaten cosmic beings that are also much more powerful than any version of the Hulk.

    It’s also quite clear that the Hulk does NOT have galactic herald power; the best example of this is his butt-whipping at the hands of Zeus. He’s also proven to be TOAST against the Silver Surfer because he has NO answer to the Power Cosmic. Also, Superman, who has Galactic Herald level power, DESTROYED the Hulk in ALL of their several meetings. I can go on and on, but I think the point has been made.

    Thor HAS been written down against the Hulk and almost everybody else. He IS the most powerful hero of all, whether it be DC or Marvel. And before you say “Thee Nay”, ask yourself what superhero would beat Thor with the Runes Power??? There is NONE!

    Thanks, enjoyed the article!

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  34. Sorry, a little correction, in Avengers Assemble Thor is getting back up before the Helicarrier explodes, during the 20 second countdown, not after Thanos has escaped. And Thanks for the titanic work you put into the write ups, i liked all of them XD Maybe you could do one with Black Bolt? now, i know he has fewer meetings than the others, but maybe if you make it a multiple kind of fight it could work (BB vs Hulk, Silver Surfer, Thor and someone else all in the same write up)...

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  35. Lee in 2002 described Thor's genesis early in the Marvel pantheon, following the creation of the Hulk:


    [H]ow do you make someone stronger than the strongest person? It finally came to me: Don't make him human — make him a god. I decided readers were already pretty familiar with the Greek and Roman gods. It might be fun to delve into the old Norse legends... Besides, I pictured Norse gods looking like Vikings of old, with the flowing beards, horned helmets, and battle clubs. ...Journey into Mystery needed a shot in the arm, so I picked Thor ... to headline the book. After writing an outline depicting the story and the characters I had in mind, I asked my brother, Larry, to write the script because I didn't have time. ...and it was only natural for me to assign the penciling to Jack Kirby...

    These are words of one of the creators of both hulk and thor stating that thor is in fact created stronger and more powerful than the hulk. Also to prove it, while thor and hulk fought each other in a test of strength in Journey into Mystery #112, hulk had thor by the wrists and yet the god of thunder overcame his strength weight and size and lifted up the green goliath out of pure strength proving he is far superior in strength plus powers were out of this equation. Also thor shattered Juggernauts helmet in one punch while hulk yet to scratch it. Thor has versed the midgard serpent which is bigger and weighs more than the earth itself in which thor overcame its size and strength and lifted it up and pulled it off the earth. Also when hulk and namor have fought....namor has proven to be too much for hulk on land and in water while thor was able to render namor unconscious with one puch in the rain (look up thor vs namor and look at the pictures). Also hulk and namor teamed up against thor and thor held his own while hulk was trying to take thors hammer and namor trying to punch him in Avengers #3. Also in their some encounters hulk has gotten the edge on thor based on popularity, sneak attacks, and thor is trying to save someone else and hulk and doesnt stop. Thor has also stated in comics that he restrains from using full strength and power because he's of afraid of killing someone. When thor got mad enough...with one swipe of his hammer at hulk, thor almost killed hulk (not even at full strength and power). Also thor when he went insane and raged, he rendered silver surfer unconsciuos twice, adam warlock and beta ray bill unconscious and silver has proven to be too much for hulk one on one when the power cosmic just on strength. If thor can knock out surfer twice who proves to be too much for hulk, thor could easily beat hulk one on one if not kill him. These are all facts from comics. These are not fan-based opinions.

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  36. I'm not sure that Thor and the Asgardians/Olympians have been downgraded powerwise just because of the Hulk's Relative popularity. I think it might be more to do with the evolution of the Marvel Universe - In the beginning these were 'Gods' and created to be top of the food chain - superhero-wise. As the Marvel Universe evolved (and became more interesting)we saw the introduction of the great cosmic entities such as Galactus,The Celestials Living Tribunal and others whose powers came to be regarded as much greater than the demigods so it was illogical and unnecessary for Thor and Co to be these untouchable perfect beings... It's better that way really and they are all the more interesting for it. If you think about it, one of the ways Marvel scores over DC is in the Flaws of the heroes. Superman (to me at least) is not that interesting a hero 'cos he's just too perfect - although it can be intesting how hard the writers have to work to put him under threat and give drama to the dynamic. Thor (and the Marvel Universe) would be way less interesting if he was patrolling the universe like some perfectly noble unbeatable prefect/hall monitor style hero. The Hulk's flaw (at least in many incarnations)is that even though he is so incredibly powerful in his near mindless rage - he is so out of control that it doesn't necessarily always benefit him or others - this keeps things interesting/exciting - If Thor (or other well reasoned 'perfect' heroes) could just calmly handle the Hulk when he needs to - the drama in the dynamic is reduced to the point where the situation is almost pointless. It seems the writers have been smart enough to realise that it's better/more interesting this way. It's also a nice dynamic that Hulk can usually beat Thor - Thor tends to beat the Surfer but Hulk can usually do nothing to the surfer ..a good three way dynamic. Although maybe Dr.Strange should be in consideration for the most powerful hero too?

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    1. I agree with you that Dr. Strange should be also considered. But... classic Dr. Strange, not the poor magician we see nowadays, because Marvel seems to have depowered him hard. No longer he can outsmart enemies, no longer has classic powers. World War Hulk battle agains the Hulk showed this clearly: writers wanted the Hulk to win, no matter how, so let's make Dr. Strange act with no strategy at all, even to not combinate efforts with other heroes, and to be crushed -literally- by the green behemoth. Oh well, for someone who had fought demons and cosmic entities that seemed pretty stupid.

      Delete
  37. back in the day thor was superior to hulk in many ways but now(the avengers movie) in the scenario in the movie hulk would have won that. It was a contained area and thor thinks about casualties, but open field thor using his powers would beat the hulk for sure. he wants to fight hulk at his strengths cause he loves challenges and it would be too easy otherwise. and maybe he wants to improve on his close combat skills, what better way than to fight the hulk?
    hulk is stronger and tougher but is stupid, and thors powers are just to strong.
    i agree with the comment above, if hulk could somehow still last after thor used all his powers that he rarley uses, he could just go into his weapon vault grab a powerful relic and use it...

    ReplyDelete
  38. I THINK What If #45 came out in '83, not '86, otherwise the article was PERFECT! :)

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    1. Sorry buddy, I'm looking at the issue right now, we're both wrong, it's 1984. But thanks for the correction update. I'm a perfectionist and I even bought the issue off the shelves back in the day, so I'm baffled that this got by me...thanks again.

      Delete
  39. Thor fanboys are the worst in all the fandom.
    Hulk (standard version) destroyed Thor most of times.
    It happened in:

    1) COMICS
    2)ANIMATED MOVIES
    3) BIG SCREEN

    WB Hulk would kill any version of Thor in a panel.
    Actually it's the Hulk who always holds back, as TIH#634 proves.
    Thor, most of the times, goes all-out and gets trashed by Hulk or Rulk, even Sentry (Voided Out).
    Thor is just a puny god and a weak superhuman overrated by his awful fanboys.

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    1. this is just too funny for how ridiculous it is. all lies by another hulk fanboy

      Delete
    2. there is a verison of thor that was twice as strong as odin check ya facts thor beats hulk with out pis

      Delete
    3. Don't waste your time responding to this dude. He must be about 11 years old (at least mentally, which would make him a Rhodes scholar compared to the Hulk's character). He has made no statement that is valid or backed by any facts or instances. It is the ranting of an opinion by a child or child-like adult who has held on too long to his Hulk underoos.

      Delete
  40. Stop being Zealots and enjoy both characters and their stories. While Hulk is my favorite I really like Thor too. Just seems like a bunch of "My Playstation is better then your X-Box because I only don't have an X-box" nonsense. The only times the stories suck is when DC Vs Marvel's popularity votes are > then the characters/stories.

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  41. Stan lee was recently asked who would win in an all out avengers battle royal and his answer was simply... Thor
    Cant make that any more clear :)
    Thor wins (ps there is a reason the writers showed thor saying he was holding back for a reason)
    So yes Thor wins if it was to the end...unless you wanna argue with stan lee of course

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    1. LOL!

      Oh really? I was with him on 11/16/12 and this is what he told me about "Hulk vs Thor"...so keep looking ;)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btdVDvvknDM

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    2. Thor has also stated in comics that he restrains from using full strength and power because he's of afraid of killing someone.

      Thor has also stated in several comics that Hulk has been & is stronger than himself... But you won't acknowledge that cuz you're a Thor fanboy so your comments are irrelevant.

      Delete
    3. "Stan lee was recently asked who would win in an all out avengers battle royal and his answer was simply... Thor
      Cant make that any more clear :)
      Thor wins (ps there is a reason the writers showed thor saying he was holding back for a reason)
      So yes Thor wins if it was to the end...unless you wanna argue with stan lee of course"

      Proof please otherwise your comment is irrelevant & ignorant.

      To my knowledge Stan Lee has never said anything like this & never would. Even recently in an episode of comic book men on the AMC channel the question was asked who would win Hulk Vs. Thor & Lee simply answered "you always try to end it in a draw" & for the most part Hulk Vs Thor fights have mostly ended in a draw.

      Delete
  42. look thor is more overall powerful and stronger than hulk but it always comes down to who is writing the comic

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  43. ... You do know Thor holds back on all mortals right? Thor has lifted serpents the same wieght as the earth with a fishing pool. Hes magic. Hulk has a better showing in his comics because hes the more popular character. This is undeniable. But Statistically speaking Hulk literally has nothing on Thor. More recently Marvel Now has finally given thor the respect he deserves and his writing has greatly improved. But in no way does hulk beat thor with PIS involved. How is hulk stronger than thor? Hulkd greatest feat of strength that i recall is lifting a 150 ton mountain. Thor picked up a snake that was big enough to coil around the world. Is said to be the same wieght of the world. 6.6 sextillion tons. Using comic books may be the "purest" form of judging characters vs charcter. But Feats are equally important. Thor has said that if he lost control at any momment with the hulk... he could kill him. Thor has said to silver surfer, that he could kill him. He even dented surfers head with a headbutt. Have you ever heard of Thors GodBlast Btw?

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  44. I personally would vote for the Hulk, but I am willing to see all sides of this. In The Avengers movie, when Hulk and Thor fought, I think, it came out in a draw. I have not read the comics so; therefore, I cannot speak about them. But I was willing to do some research about the subject, and this is what I found according to http://marvel.com/news/story/4119/archrivals_hulk_vs_thor:
    • Journey into Mystery #112 (1965) “This was the first real fight between Thor and Hulk. Thor tested his own mallet on the hide of the Hulk. Hulk became determined to sap Mjolnir in two, but Odin’s extension of his son’s power sans hammer allowed Thor to deliver frantic fisticuffs on the Hulk. Alas, a timely cave-in signaled an end to the bout with neither fighter triumphant.”
    • In Thor v1 #385 (1987) “A bored Thor rashly sought the Hulk to yet again test his mettle. Once his nose became bloodied, the Hulk dared the Thunder God to set aside his Uru hammer and even took hostage to force Thor to comply. Having thrown his weapon away, Thor entered into such fisticuffs with his irradiated opponent that neither combatant comprehended the surrounding damage they caused. After endangering a school bus and a train, Hulk became mystified over his lack of victory and his anger cooled. Walking away from the fight, the behemoth proved himself the better man.”
    When reading through the previous posts, I noticed quite a few posters saying that Thor could kill Hulk if he really wanted to (I’m not saying it’s correct or wrong). Hulk and Thor have both had their fair share of victories against opponents, but when they fight each other it seems neither is superior to the other. Thor has killed beings; like in the movie Thor he killed the frost giants and their beast. The Hulk also killed the Abomination in the movie The Incredible Hulk. Also in The Avengers film Banner says quote “I got low. I didn’t see an end. So, I put a bullet in my mouth and the other guy spit it out,” so with that being said the Hulk most likely can’t be killed.

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    1. Hulk never killed The Abomination in that movie, check again and see the Marvel's one-shots, there's one I think it mention a place where SHIELD has The Abomination locked up. Also in Avenger's movie, Thor kill 2 Chitauri Behemoths with thunders, officially Hulk can't be killed by "normal" means. So, he can be killed but the way to do so is just above extreme:

      • Throwing him into the sun, decomposing his matter particles to ashes like phoenix force does or draining his life-force. All those things can be done by Thor if he wants, is known that Thor can revive recently dead persons via injecting life force, if you know how to inject life force into someone dead, thus reviving him, then you must know how to drain it, killing him.

      • Dr. Strange has said that he can cut the life strings of any mortal, these strings is what put our souls into existence, so cutting those, make anyone cease to exist (to live). He didn't that with Hulk in WWH 'cause he didn't wanted to do so (he wanted to save Banner at all cost).

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  45. "When the Avengers attack the villain Ex Nihilo, the "Gravage" Hulk get's manipulated by his ally The Abyss. She convinces the Hulk that Thor thinks he is stronger than him and he must smash the Thunder God. The Hulk will attack Thor and they brawl it out. RESULT: UNKNOWN (We never see the fight in its entirety as both heroes are next seen unconscious and prisoners of the villains. This fight could well be listed as a "draw" but it's hard to give a definitive result.)"

    This is complete nonsense. Hulk was not unconscious at any point, he was mind controlled. We only see one panel, Hulk jumping at Thor and smashing him with a right cross. The next time we see Thor he is tied up in a tree so Hulk clearly put him down. In the next issue we see Hulk standing next to Abyss staring at the Avengers in the tree.

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    1. Sure, maybe that happened. But unless it is seen in the comic itself, it's all speculation. Truth.

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  46. Totally unbiased and proven with facts. You sir, are what fanboys need in comic debates!! Thanks for this and please keep them coming!!!

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  47. Great write up! This is well written and researched. Love it!

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  48. I like how you broke down and acknowledged "The Big 3". I think this is very interesting because I'm sure many comic fans know about this and thought about it, but never really seen it in print. I totally agree here, the Hulk is the strongest and most durable, Thor is the most talented, while Surfer has the best versatile power-set (Superman may have a thing to say about it though). All the other "Heavyweights" fall behind them (or are compared to them and regarded as peers), but these guys are the measuring stick. Great stuff you have here my friend. Keep up the good work.

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  49. Why does Thor always slug it out with the Hulk? How many beatings does he have to take to realize he needs to fight the Hulk with his other powers? Man, Thor is fool.

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  50. This is one of the most informative write ups on anything comics that I've ever read.

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  51. You don't really get this much good information in a "versus" thread. What an amazing job.

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  52. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I022_Q-qOKg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmgkmxY24xE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUscMQgDmGs

    Why is this even a debate? I mean really? Are you kids serious? Thor always holds back so he doesn't kill banner. If he even used a quarter of ANY of his powers hulk would be animated.

    Also with Zues owning hulk and the grrek gods being weaker than the Norse gods in marvel that should say enough :)

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    1. Just so you know that Thor vs Gray Hulk and Savage Hulk wasn't even in continuity. LOL!

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  53. Doesn't matter the bulk what was posted is. Hulk couldn't beat zues it was a no contest loss. That was World War Hulk. Thor is stronger than zues. This is all canon.

    Yawn @hulk fans.

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    1. A loss? More like a sacrifice. Hulk instigated and then he didn't fight back. The Hulk was a hero in that fight!

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  54. This is without a doubt the best information I've ever read on the subject of Hulk versus Thor. You should be given a medal for this.

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  55. I truly believe that we have not seen the hulks true potential in his strength. We have not been shown the limits to which the strength of hulk can go because each new story arch that comes out has the hulk pushing the boundaries to how much strength he has. I believe that the savage hulk we have come to know is only an incomplete version of the true hulk. To explain what I mean let me start off by explaining that Bruce banner has dissociative identity disorder which means he has multiple personalities. So for each personality Bruce has there is a hulk. Some examples are the main child like savage hulk which represents Bruce banners rage, also devil hulk and the professor. Each of the hulk personalities range in strength and durability so what we are seeing from each individual hulk is only a "piece of the pie". There has been a story line where Bruce traveled into his mind and met with the different hulks but It was very hard for them to co-exist. It would be awesome if the writers came up with a story line that had Bruce going back to deal with the multiple personalities and somehow being able to have them submit and come together to form a complete hulk. This may not makes sense, it could be the ramblings of a crazy person who hasn't slept in a day, but it could be interesting to see how strong the hulk can get. It poses an interesting question of, what would happen if bruce banner did not have multiple personality disorder? Would all the different hulks just vanish and the dominant version surface or would they all form a complete version of the hulk as stated earlier? I would like to hear what others has to say about this idea, because if what we are seeing is only a incomplete version of the hulk then his true strength would more than likely give Zeus a run for his money.

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  56. The problem with these comparisons is this: Thor is never, *ever* permitted to employ his cosmic powers when fighting the Hulk. He is limited by writers (like Busiek, whose dislike of Thor is on the record) who wish him defeated to leading with his chin, using Mjolnir as a bludgeon and perhaps some lightning. [This also occurred against Superman, which had Thor *wading into* his heat vision rather than deflecting it with Mjolnir or better, absorbing it and returning at Supes two or even tenfold? Um ... *no*. *Ridiculous*, and Busiek damned well knows it; he's just an intractable jerk about Thor.] Frankly, it's tiresome and childish composition from biased sources. We never see Thor employ his Unfettered Might, the Anti-Force, the God Blast, the Thermo Blast, any of his true fighting skills (frankly, if Thor chose to fight as he could, it's arguable the Hulk would never land a blow), draw on the Odin-power, the Runes, inter-dimensional travel (with which he could change the venue at will) employ a constant barrage of lighting such as the world has never seen (which he could do if he so desired), use his mother Gaea's powers, tap into the Earth's magnetic force, et al, ad infinitum. Hulk fans ... listen up: Of course he's stronger than Thor. He's the Hulk; that's his schtick. But he's not nearly as powerful if both are properly written. Hell, if Thor went all out, he could not defeat the Hulk. He could disintegrate him.

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    1. Without Mjolnir Thor is a glorified Hercules who can't beat Hulk one on one. In The incredible Hulk 440 Thor went into his warrior madness state against the Maestro Hulk and could not even beat him. Thor even hit Hulk with a blast that could light up a hundred Broadway's according to Betty herself. I also liked at the end it stated that in the end words don't matter only power does only strength, as we see Thor flying away from Hulks punch. Even though it says he barely register it Hulk was basically dictating the whole fight and in the end even saved Thor from the Bakst by punching him away. This shows that not only is hulk stronger than him in his warrior madness state but that he could take on Thors lightning attacks. And like I stated in the post above we have not seen the full extent of Hulks powers. Each persona of the Hulk is but a piece of the total pie sort to speak.

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    2. *saved Thor from the blast

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    3. "Without Mjolnir Thor is a glorified Hercules"

      Not really. Thor is still capable of using some of his powers even without Mjolnir.

      "who can't beat Hulk one on one."

      He already has. In Hulk Annual 2001, he took him out with a single lightning bolt.

      "In The incredible Hulk 440 Thor went into his warrior madness state against the Maestro Hulk and could not even beat him. Thor even hit Hulk with a blast that could light up a hundred Broadway's according to Betty herself."

      Actually, that was a de-powered Thor. He had lost all of his powers and was functioning off the power of someone else, not his own. Whenever it states that he regained his powers, it was just the power of the person he was functioning off, not his actual own. So in conclusion, there's no reason to believe Thor was operating at anywhere near normal power levels.

      "I also liked at the end it stated that in the end words don't matter only power does only strength, as we see Thor flying away from Hulks punch. Even though it says he barely register it Hulk was basically dictating the whole fight and in the end even saved Thor from the Bakst by punching him away. This shows that not only is hulk stronger than him in his warrior madness state"

      It was a pretty even fight from what I saw. And see above. This Thor was de-powered in his WM state, so it's not proof of anything regarding a WM Thor under normal circumstances. And just adding this in, Thor in his WM state beat the tar out of Beta ray Bill and Silver Surfer simultaneously, along with Adam Warlock, and even hit Bill so hard that it knocked him out and shattered a planetoid in the process with a single strike. I don't see Hulk beating that Thor.

      "but that he could take on Thors lightning attacks."

      See above. DE-POWERED Thor. There's no reason to believe his lightning would be anywhere near it's normal average power. As proof, Hulk could tank it here, yet got KOed from a bolt from Thor under regular power. Also, Thor can make his lightning attacks much stronger, like when he affected the planet with his lightning from another dimension or when it sliced through Chaos King. Don't see Hulk tanking multiple bolts of those.











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  57. I think this piece makes some very good points. My own take on various things is that Hulk definitely was getting the upper hand in the Avengers movie, but Thor was holding back as he was trying to reason with Hulk. Hulk now is stronger and more powerful than Hulk from the 60s and 70s without a doubt. I had an old Marvel comic from about 1983 and it said that Hulk could lift 100 tons at base strength. He without a doubt easily exceeds this now. Also, Thor is an honourable character. When he fights Hulk he wants to beat him combat as a warrior so doesn't invoke his other powers. Hence he is always doomed to struggle against a physically stronger character. I genuinely believe that Thor would take Hulk down if he used all the power available to him, but I think he wants to out fight him man on man and therefore this is why Hulk will always stalemate Thor or have an edge.

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  58. WOW! This write up has everything. While I am familiar with many of the issues of the Hulk and Thor squaring off, this had a lot of information I had no idea about. Thanks for this, really.

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  59. The Hulk is and has been shown to be easily the stronger than Thor in all aspects of the medium. I am truly baffled on how many Thor fanboys still grasp at straws just so he can remain relevant in the Hulk vs Thor debate. Thor has been a punching bag for Marvel, especially in the last 5 years. Live with it Thorites...LOL!

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    1. I couldn't agree with you more.

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  60. I disagree with one thing I see no reason any of thors powers could kill or even damage the hulk maybe a straight god blast but lightning thunder tornadoes won't really do much to hulk but piss him the hell off than thor's really gonna get it I've never seen a solid power from thor that could put hulk down and then he wouldn't use it he want's to prove he's better than hulk that he's stronger but so far he hasn't been able to that's why a god can't and will never beat an irradiated man

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  61. Its already been proven that Thor is at least Hulk's equal even when at his greatest enragement as they stood toe to toe in Defenders #10. If Hulk isn't pissed off to the highest degree after 90 minutes of not being able to put this guy down face to face, then I don't know when he is. Thor kept up with his strength increases along the way, so if he attacked Hulk prior to him getting to that level, Hulk would be defeated. This is logical, not your biased "I love Mr. Purple pants" Hulk-fanatical theory. Yes Thor's Hammer gives him a clear edge if he were to use it as he is capable of...but like Stan the Man Lee, The-One-Above-All decrees it, Thor has never used his full strength or powers against an Earth mortal (even one as monstrous as Hulk), because of his compassion to preserve the lives of us non-immortals. You Hulk-knobbers should be ashamed of yourselves, the most Pwoerful mortal, can never match up to the most powerful immortal, no matter how big & green.

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  62. The Hulk must not be as dense as Thor. He is like a big green marshmallow. He only outweighs Thor by 40% of his mass, while appearing to be 2 to 4 times his size (depending on the artist or CG effects-person). I like the Hulk to potentially be the strongest hero on Earth, but Thor (just as strong as a 99.9th percentile PO'ed Hulk) is the most powerful of all of Earth's superheroes. One day he may mistake the big galoof for a green rock troll, not hold back and accidentally send him to Valhalla via a gamma-green skull- crush by good 'ol trusty Mjolnir.

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  63. Watch Hulk vs on Netflix.com where hulk kills thor and thor is revived from deaths door only by the enchantress. In Planet Hulk the Hulk is a long foretold of GOD the people have been waiting for.

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    1. That story doesn't matter or count at all. It is an opinionated view of one person. Just like all of the other stories created by many a rogue writer/editor. A person can draw favoritism by fond memories of a lunch pail, poster, toy action figure 1st comic collected or favorite pair of underoos for that matter. The only opinions that really matters is the ones of the creative team who spawned the characters themselves. It is apparent from the beginning that Stan Lee had it in mind that Thor is the TOP DOG of all earthbound superheroes. When TOAA speaks, everyone else needs to just shut up and take your lumps, like Hulk would have to vs the God of Thunder.

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  64. Re Avengers 1 (2012). Hulk was not unconscious.

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  65. Re: Thor appearance vs Hulk appearance in Marvel Comics. According to the Marvel site Thor appears 10 years prior to Hulk. As such, this article is incorrect.

    Re: Who would win. According to Stan Lee in an interview just before the release of the Avengers Movie in 2012 Ultimate Thor is more powerful than Hulk. Further, it depends on what point in time the Marvel writers have been writting in. If Hulk is more popular then he wins, and if Thor is more popular Thor wins. Stan Lee himself notes that it also depends on who's writting the story at the time, but Ultimate Thor would win.

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  66. The biases are as blatant as Republicans vs Democrats. Both think they are right, but neither are.

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  67. Good work

    but i disagree about 'fear itself' outcome because of this ;

    http://i.hizliresim.com/wzJXmO.jpg

    and it was ''bfr'' i suppose, hulk destroyed dracula's army afterward

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  68. also i am disagree about thor's victory (2001) for me ; 2-1 hulk winning the match

    http://www.comicvine.com/hulk/4005-2267/forums/did-thor-ever-defeated-hulk-1535740/#0/

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  69. Fabrício (Brazilian fan)March 5, 2014 at 3:58 PM

    Great Post!!
    but I do not agree with your results in THE MIGHTY THOR 489 (1995)
    Hulk was briefly immobilized and Thor would strike a serious blow with the hammer but Hela stopped the fight, DRAW???? In my opinion is EDGE for THOR.

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    1. The Hulk wasn't immobilized, he was letting Thor hit him because he knew it wouldn't hurt him. He even states this! Read the issue again.

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    2. "he was letting Thor hit him because he knew it wouldn't hurt him"
      hahahahahahahahahahahahha........................ok HulkLover......
      You're wrong.....
      YES, he was imoblizado with tons of stones....
      is YOU that need read the issue again

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    3. Why do you even bother arguing with these Thor low-lifes? They will argue and argue and never come to the conclusion that EVERYBODY already knows; Hulk is stronger and has the edge in this fight. Always had and always will.

      Does "Fabricio" realize that the Hulk was totally de-powered in this fight? He held back and fought Thor with kid-gloves because the Hulk couldn't get angry. And still, nothing Thor did could truly hurt him.

      Why are you grabbing at straws?? Because Thor-fans have too! They got no choice because this rivalry is a losing battle for Thor fans. Always will be. Hahahahahahahaha.

      Immobilized in stone? Keep laughing freak (and use spell check for once). What a loser.

      Just like Thor against the Hulk :)

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    4. I just read the issue and it seemed to me that the Hulk wasn't in any danger throughout the entire fight other than trying to keep himself calm. The ending shows the Hulk in no danger whatsoever as he was under stones and tells Thor to do his worst. He knew Thor's hit was going to cause him no damage. I see it as a complete DRAW.

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    5. "He knew Thor's hit was going to cause him no damage"

      hahahahahahahahahahahehehehhahahhehe............

      O lord.........these Hulk Lovers make me laugh.....

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    6. You say Hulk was totally de-powered in this fight? He held back and fought Thor with kid-gloves because the Hulk couldn't get angry?

      You carefully read the description of the fight?? then read again: "Thor he was not really trying to win this fight either as both were more or less focused on causing as much damage as possible"

      From MY POINT OF VIEW at the end of the fight the Hulk was immobilized under the rocks (even temporarily) and Thor was ready to hit him with the hammer but Hela stopped fighting.

      What would have happened if Thor would hit him with the hammer ?? I DO NOT KNOW.
      It could hurt the green Giant? MAYBE......MAYBE NOT......

      But HULK LOVERS say that NOTHING would happen......because HULK LOVERS think the Green One is invincible.......

      Hulk is stronger ??? I do not disagree with that......but Thor is more powerful....

      Do you like the WHAT IF stories????? or stories of alternative futures??? You ever notice that these stories Thor always has the advantage over the Hulk??

      NO????? then read again; WHAT IF 45 (1984) or WHAT IF 04 (1989) or THE MIGHTY THOR 73 (2004) or LAST HERO STANDING 05 (2005)..........

      All these stories Thor beats Hulk, you know why???? because in the normal chronology (616 universe) the writers are afraid to tell the TRUTH and hurt the heart of the Hulk fans.

      Accept the truth.......HULK LOVER...........

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    7. How people still debate over this rivalry is beyond me.

      Let's get this straight, I hate the Hulk but this article does a perfect job in breaking down the fight analytically and without being biased and leads me to believe that he has the edge over Thor. I hate to admit it but what the author writes here is something even I have to agree with. Thor loses this most of the time because of his ego but I love how he beats that loser the Silver Surfer.

      I hate the Surfer more than the Hulk.

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  70. Great summary of events. Some oddities, like some have pointed out and like that Thor doesn't pummel Thor in their Avengers movie battle, he just throws him around a bit. Thor is hit once in that entire fight.

    This also shows how inconsistent and surprisingly often bad the writing has been. Thor almost always fights Hulk stupidly. I'd like to see a very well written fight between the two where Thor actually uses all his powers, which I guess would be a fight where Thor would win. Hulk is strong and durable, but that's far from all there is to a fight. Thor is on his level in that regard but has so much more to offer, but he never uses all he has against Hulk for some reason.

    I guess when we look at what Thor has done, like actually hurting celestial beings, Galactus, etc, there's no doubt he can do far worse things than the small things he's tried on Hulk. I guess it can be explained by that Thor tends to hold back on Earth's inhabitants.

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  71. I can a name some superheros and villains more powerful then hulk,thor and the silver surfur in dc and marvel,but let's start with marvel.
    Blue marvel,stronger and more powerful then them.Hyperion,sentry,king hyperion.
    Now for those more powerful then them,captain universe,some green lanterns,superman prime,gladiator etc...
    There others examples.
    Superman i think is more powerful then hulk but not as powerful as thor and the silver surfur and the others i mention.
    There others examples.
    just look at info on wiki marvel and comicvine.
    Bye.

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  72. Have to say these are great...it's so hard to match up something as nebulous as these comparisons with any real logic and they do very well. I stopped reading comics more than a dozen years ago because of the reboots and reimagining of all the characters I had grown up with, so I'll make my comments based on a more classic version of these two...

    Personally, to me it has always seemed there are two factors at play, and strength one of them (for the record, I don't recall the Hulk really having a "healing factor" per se, not like your Deadpool or Wolverine anyway, just on the level that comics seem to give all most heroes an greatly improved ability to heal and recover from damage).

    The first is that despite their overall similarity in durability, it seems that the Hulk is simply more resistant to taking damage in the first place. While they can both come back from tremendous hits over and over again, over time, Thor ends up on the worse end if it. If they were to stand there taking turns punching each other in the face, Thor is taking 2 or 3 times the punishment from the blow and even at identical strength and overall endurance, the one getting hurt more is going to lose....which leads directly into point two. Thor has all of the necessary powers and tools to take the Hulk apart, but he never does. Instead, he seems to be intent on fighting the Hulk on the Hulk's terms and it's a slugfest he can't mathematically win. No matter how long can push himself and stay in the fight, eventually he's going to lose by attrition...in this way, it doesn't really matter what else Thor has in his bag of tricks. In a strict strong-man competition, the Hulk eventually takes it.

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  73. FEAR ITSELF 05 (2011)

    "I cannot beat you, you know
    and i never could"

    From my point of view Thor was referring to Nul (which was much stronger thanks to the power of the hammer) he was not speaking of past clashes against Hulk, and even strengthened by the hammer Thor was able to hitting Hulk to space....

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  74. I do not agree with some results of these battles.

    For example:

    THE AVENGERS 03 (1964)

    Thor fought the Hulk and Namor AT THE SAME TIME, Hulk tried to take the hammer of Thor's hands with BOTH hands and Thor managed to hold with ONE hand, Hulk was surprised with the strength of Thor, in my opinion this counts as a small advantage for Thor.

    JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY 112 (1965)

    Thor fought without the hammer, during the confrontation Thor was much more aggressive, he raised hulk when he tried to immobilize it, again Hulk refuses to believe in the strength of Thor, in my opinion this counts as a small advantage for Thor.

    INFINITY CRUSADE 04 (1993)

    Hulk is knocked back by the hammer and is drifting in space, it passes through the atmosphere of the earth to fall to the ground where he remains UNCONSCIOUS, in my opinion win Thor.

    THE MIGHTY THOR 489 (1995)

    Hulk is stuck on the rocks that Thor brought down on him using Mjlonir, he prepares to give a blow with his hammer and Hela interrupts the fight, in my opinion edge for Thor

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  75. Ok, let's analyze this confrontation of Hulk / Thor in the Avengers movie.

    In my opinion this confrontation was super balanced unlike some people who claim that the Hulk was better or that Thor was better.

    People think the character who gives the final blow ever wins a fight and this is not so, you have to understand the entire fight.

    First controversy, Thor use both arms to prevent the Hulk pushing in down?? was not what I saw.
    Thor uses his left arm to block Hulk Blow, and his right arm he holds the pulse of the Hulk, why ?? because he did not want the Hulk to pull back the arm, he wanted to immobilize the Hulk.

    This fight is very balanced, even the number of attacks of each character is the same, If Joss Whedon did it on purpose he was really smart.

    Realize:

    Hulk punches and sends Thor away / Thor also with the hammer.

    Hulk crosses Thor in the ceiling wall/ Thor crosses Hulk in the wall and saves the life of the Black Widow.

    Hulk slams Thor into the ground, then he picks Thor up again and throws him into the wall (2 attacks) / Thor punches Hulk in the face and knees Hulk to the face (2 attacks)

    If a character had a slight advantage in this fight I would say is Thor because he picks up Mjolnir and jumps on Hulks back putting him into a chokehold trying to knock him out.

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  76. Hulk is stronger overall in raw strength, whereas Thor is more powerful in other stats and well-versed.

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