"Hero Envy" The Blog Adventures

HULK VS SUB-MARINER

2012-02-22T09:36:00.014-05:00

HULK VS SUB-MARINER

THE DEFINITIVE WRITE UP ON THE GREEN SKINNED GOLIATH AND THE AVENGING SON: ARE THEY FRIENDS OR FOES?

John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino

The Hulk slugging it out with The Savage Sub-Mariner has always been a classic and intense Marvel match up. It was easily one of the biggest fights in the Marvel Universe during the 60's and 70's. "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" was a rivalry between "The strongest person walking the Earth and the most powerful person under the sea" and they both took those roles very seriously (Namor always hated that the Hulk had a bigger reputation than him when it came to physical strength and believed he was just as strong, if not stronger than the brute when he was at peak-strength in the sea). As Marvel's very first outcast anti-heroes, the two were always reluctant allies that respected each other, but also couldn't stand to be in the same room with each other. Both were proud, quick-tempered, ego-filled, human-hating characters that were a powerful combination as teammates on the Defenders. But with this dynamic between them, they were also teammates that couldn't get along. And as a result, they had some of the most legendary and vicious scraps from Marvel's Silver and Bronze Age that put this rivalry into the history books.

As Marvel's first outcast anti-heroes, Namor and the Hulk have been allies and teammates many times throughout the years (most famously as part of the Defenders with Dr. Strange and the Silver Surfer). And both have always shared a mutual respect for each others power and strength.

But with their volatile personalities and tempers, they are ready to lash out on each other at any given moment.

But this rivalry began to lose a lot of steam in the 80's and never really regained it's magic since then. Sure, the Hulk and Namor always remained staunch teammates and rivals and had more battle royals, but the interest of this tussle never seemed to captured the imagination of the fans like it did in the past. "Hulk vs Thor" and "Hulk vs Thing" always remained popular and consistent, but when Wolverine started to become a mega-superstar character in the 80's and 90's, "Hulk vs Wolverine" was the new slugfest of choice that eventually became the most popular "savage" scrap in the Marvel Universe. Somewhere during that time, "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" just kinda went away.

I always believed that it was the whole land and water dynamic that made this fight kind of unfair for both combatants. Don't get me wrong, it was an interesting dynamic, but it was also frustrating. When Namor would fight the Hulk (or any other opponent) on land, he was always at a disadvantage because his strength would gradually diminish as the water from his body dried up. And the Hulk (or any other land-dwelling opponent) would be at a HUGE disadvantage when they fought under the sea because Namor held all the advantages (I guess if anyone had to fight Namor on even terms it had to always be on a beach and nobody wants to see that all the time).

But it was this dynamic that always hurt Namor's reputation as a whole in the Marvel Universe. He is (by far) the best and most powerful of characters under the sea, no one can dispute that. But he falls into the lower-echelon of the Super-Heavyweights of the Marvel Universe in strength and power (even when he is fully hydrated walking on land) despite all his "royal" boasts of supremacy. Yes, Namor has been humbled on a few occasions in pure physical strength match ups when he was wet or even submerged (by peers Hercules, Thor and the Hulk no less, who are all at the top of the food-chain when it comes to physical strength). And despite being one of the strongest beings on Earth and able to match almost any opponent toe-to-toe, what this proves is that Namor's strength isn't as "limitless" as he usually says it is under the sea. Also, when someone can fight Namor submerged without as much of a hindrance, this usually lessens the odds in the fight (as the Abomiantion once did when he realized his body adapted well underwater and actually beat Namor). I'm sure many Sub-Mariner fanboys will debate these controversies over and over, but despite all the arguments, it does show a "cap" on Namor's power levels even when he is at full-strength.

What truly makes Namor so incredibly powerful and effective in water is the advantage he has over opponents when they are submerged. Because make no mistake, no one in the Marvel Universe can fight as well as the Avenging Son in the depths of the sea. On land, he may still be a force against anyone, but without his great advantage, he isn't beyond the upper echelon of the Super-Heavyweights.

Namor always boasts of limitless strength and power that no one can match when he is wet or under the sea. As you can see, The Mighty Thor makes very short work of Namor despite the rain that is keeping him at peak-strength.

I'm guessing Hercules also lost the memo on Namor's unmatched peak-powers as he proves to be far stronger than the Sub-Mariner even when they are both at the bottom of the ocean. As you can see, it was a humbling experience for the Sea Prince.

A letter during Marvel's Silver Age (when I believe Namor was at his most powerful and respected) shows exactly where he stands in the Marvel hierarchy of physical strength.

This panel pretty much says it all when a land-dweller like the Thing tries to challenge the might of Namor in the sea.

After writing all that, some readers might think I am trying to discredit King Namor. Actually, that is the furthest thing from the truth. The Sub-Mariner is without question, one of my favorite comic book characters ever and he should be given his proper respect. First, he is the original "hotheaded" personality in the Marvel cast of characters. He is so regal, majestic, arrogant and brash, that he is very tough to get along with and most think of him as a pompous ass (he is a "King" after all). He knows he is quite capable of defeating just about any opponent in the Marvel Universe and makes it quite clear to everyone in his presence. Namor is also very temperamental and impulsive and he has very little tolerance for weakness or disrespect. But despite these qualities, Namor is also very noble, proud, honorable, intuitive, dedicated and loyal. I always loved how he was such a mixed bag of extreme emotions, you just never knew what he was going to do (and I should also point out that Namor is quite the ladies man, who has had Sue Richards, Lady Dorma and Marrina as some of his conquests). But if you mix Namor's "Type A" personality with an equally impulsive and temperamental brute that loves to show his superiority in strength and power to others, friends or not, sparks (and fists) are bound to fly...often.

Despite his many complexities, Namor has always had women who were absolutely captivated by his majestic allure. Sue Richards, the Invisible Woman is one of those women who is totally enthralled with Namor despite her loyalty to husband Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four.

And let's make no mistake about it, Namor knows full well about his capabilities with the female flesh and he's not afraid to brag about it...even during a scrap.

And when it come to his fighting skills, there is not many as ferocious or tenacious. Namor is a legendary scrapper whose savagery is on par with both Wolverine and the Hulk and he is just as brutal as either of them. These traits are why Namor can hold his own and defeat far more powerful opponents (even when he is dehydrated). And if they happen to fall underwater during the fight, then they will be at Namor's total mercy for The Avenging Son has no equal beneath the seven seas in overall skill. These are the reasons why the Hulk has always had trouble dealing with Namor in a throwdown, the Sea King is quite capable of getting as vicious and as wild as the Green Skinned Goliath himself. And interestingly, that's why the Hulk also loved it. He would instigate a lot of their scraps (which would just infuriated Namor even further) and enjoy a nice mindless brawl, which fellow teammates like Dr. Strange or the Silver Surfer had too constantly break up. Looking at them from the outside, you would never know if they were friends or foes. Poor Namor, as much as he respected the Hulk, he simply couldn't stand the brute.

Also, it was this level of fighting why Namor always got the better of longtime rival and resident Marvel Heavyweight, the Thing. Although the Thing is a more durable street-fighter, Namor is just way more vicious and unrelenting than Aunt Petunia's favorite nephew. This was always the key to Namor's dominance in most of their legendary punch ups. Yes, as classic as "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" is in the annals of Marvel's history, "Sub-Mariner vs Thing" is also another classic match up in the Marvel mythos. And Namor's success alone against the two Man-Monsters, the Hulk and the Thing (especially during the 60's and 70's) is telling on how much respect Namor truly deserves. And that's something not even Super-Heavyweight Thor can boast about.

During the 60's and 70's, nobody had more success fighting against either the Hulk or the Thing than the Sub-Mariner did. It's from these victories alone, why Namor has every right to be considered one of the most respected and dangerous opponents on Earth.

While "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" doesn't get the recognition and prestige it once held during the early years of the Marvel Universe, it still has a fun and interesting dynamic that all comic fans will enjoy. When two unstable, ego-driven powerhouses are in the proximity of each other (especially for long periods of time), understanding and tolerance are bound to fly out the window, being replaced by screaming insults and city-leveling brawls. Surprisingly, these same two unstable, ego-driven powerhouses will always be loyal friends and when push comes to shove, they will be there to help each other out. You can bet when the Defenders team together and save the world from another menace, hopefully their are some rational minds around to help these two mavericks deal with each other....welcome to the life of the incredible Hulk and the savage Sub-Mariner!

Enough with the background, let's get to the combatants...

TALE OF THE TAPE

Name: Hulk

Height: 5’9 ½” (Banner), 7’ (Hulk)

Weight: 128lbs (Banner), 1,040lbs (Hulk)

Real Name: Robert Bruce Banner

Origins: Gamma bomb explosion at Desert Base New Mexico

Home Base: Earth

Nicknames: Green Goliath, Jade Jaws, Annihilator, Captain Universe, Joe Fixit, Mr. Fixit, Mechano, Green Scar, Jade Giant, The Jolly Green Giant, Green King, Holku, Green One, Eye of Rage, Harkanon, Haarg, Once-Savage, Two Minds, Professor, War, Maestro, Two-Hands, Greenskin, Gray Goliath, Mighty Bob, Anti-Hulk, Friday, Green Golem, Golem, Man-Monster, World-Breaker, Sakaarson, Nul: Breaker of Worlds, The Strongest One There Is

Powers: Possesses the potential for near limitless levels of physical strength, depending directly on his emotional state, particularly his anger. He is also extremely resistant to physical damage, psychic assaults, temperature extremes, and is completely immune to disease and poisons. He can breathe underwater, survive unprotected in space, and when injured, heals from almost any wound within seconds. His powerful legs allow him to leap into lower Earth orbit or across continents. His durability, healing, endurance, and possibly speed, likewise increase in relation to his adrenaline levels. As Bruce Banner, he is considered one of the greatest minds on Earth. He is the foremost expert on Gamma Radiation and has developed expertise in the fields of Biology, Chemistry, Engineering, Physiology, and has a PhD in Nuclear Physics.

Favorite Expressions: “Hulk Smash!” “Hulk is the Strongest One There is!” “Nothing Can Stop Hulk!” “Don’t make me angry, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.”

Incarnations: I listed the “Savage” Hulk’s stats up above because it is generally considered that this Hulk persona is the most popular and most powerful of all the incarnations. But his height, weight and powers can change from time to time depending on his current incarnation. Within each “Hulk vs Hercules” comic description listed in the sections below, I included which incarnation of the Hulk was present for that fight. To understand this and to see some of the other strengths and weakness each incarnation has click on this link below.

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/incarnations/incarnations.html

Name: Namor ("Avenging Son")

Height: 6'2"

Weight: 278lbs

Real Name: Namor McKenzie

Origins: Atlantis

Home Base: Atlantis; Utopia; San Francisco Bay, California

Nicknames: The Sub-Mariner, Subby, Wingfoot, Namor the First, Avenging Son, Old Man, Imperius Rex, Rex, Sea Lord, The Sea Prince, The Sea King, Sovereign of Atlantis, Lord of the Seven Seas, Monarch of the Sea, Monarch of Atlantis, Prince Namor, King Namor, Scion of Atlantis, Ruler of Atlantis, Prince of Atlantis, King of Atlantis, The Atlantean Prince, The Atlantean King, Royal-Prince of the Blood, The Fish-Man, The Savage, Scourge of the Seven Seas, Dr. G. W. Falton, John Pierre

Powers: Human/Atlantean (unique hybrid of Atlantean homo mermanus and mutant homo superior physiology) grants amphibian physiological adaptation making him able to survive indefinitely underwater or on land (although he would still need occasional contact with water to survive), also grants superhuman strength, durability (able to withstand freezing temperatures), stamina, vision, agility, reflexes, healing, longevity and speed (he can run and move at speeds greater than the finest human athlete and swim at speeds greater than most Atlanteans reaching speeds over 75 knots). He can absorb certain types of radiation, has Aquatic Telepathy (which he can communicate and persuade all marine life to do his bidding), Mimicry Aquatic Life (he can mimic the characteristics of most undersea creatures and has demonstrated sonar, lateral lines; which he can detect subtle movement and vibrations around him, particularly underwater and Bio-Electricity; which he can discharge bio-electricity like and an electric eel), has Hydrokinesis (able to spray water from his skin) and Flight (has vestigial "wings" on both ankles which he can fly at speeds of escape velocity with maximum effort and can out-speed a military aircraft at normal levels). He is an expert in hand-to-hand combat above and below the sea as well as a master swordsman, marksman and welder. He is also an expert diplomat, tactician, engineer, businessman and multilingual (speaking virtually every language on Earth).

Weaknesses: Due to his dependence on water to maintain his health and vitality, Namor possesses a variety of unique vulnerabilities. Water Deficiency; When not exposed to water, many of Namor’s physical attributes gradually decline and can reach a point where he possesses only a small fraction of his powers. Namor's strength, stamina, and durability are affected most and, at their minimum known level, are much closer to the levels possessed by the vast majority of other Atlanteans. Renewed exposure to water will immediately restore his abilities. Oxygen Imbalance; Namor has demonstrated a vulnerability to oxygen imbalance when remaining too long in either water or air, resulting in manic-depressive mood swings. Namor is believed to be in the midst of an imbalance during the times in which he becomes angry very easily, which he is well known for, and is unable to think clearly and logically. He can prevent this imbalance, however, by dividing his time between the two atmospheres. He has occasionally used scientific or magical means to regulate his oxygen levels. With the imbalance properly controlled, Namor has shown himself to be a much more capable leader and generally much easier to be in contact with. Dehydration; Very powerful heat-based attacks are somewhat of a concern, as they cause dehydration; causing his body to dry faster, and weaken at at a accelerated rate. Pollution; If Namor is immersed in or exposed to polluted water, it can have a negative effect both on his physiology and the efficiency of his physical attributes.

Weapons: Neptune's Trident; this trident is enchanted and possesses properties which have yet to be revealed, though it is made (at least in part) of Adamantine metal. The trident is capable of many things including: the ability to control any body of water, create water elementals, speed ships and other water vehicles with water, create fogs and storms of high intensity, summon waves of water to propel him at great speeds, and create earthquakes by increasing water pressure. Horn of Proteus; an Atlantean relic that allowed the user to summon and control many of the sea monsters and mutates found in the sea.

Favorite Expressions: "Imperius Rex!", "Now it's time to feel the untamed wrath of a Monarch born!", "None can match the power of the one true Sub-Mariner!", "Beneath the sea, no one can match my strength!", "If you will not fight me with honor--then expect no quarter from the Avenging Son!"

THE SLUGFESTS

The Hulk and Namor have had such a long and stressful friendship (especially for Namor), that they have always been uneasy and volatile allies throughout their history. To list all the times they have argued or almost came to blows would be monotonous and irrelevant to this write up. But I like being as informative as possible, so I listed every time they attacked each other (even if it was just a punch or two), held the other back (as they physically touched one another and could have ended up fighting), and their actual slugfests (where they try to tear the others head off to prove their superiority). This is as in-depth as it gets for any "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" fan.

As always, each comic listed in this section is in actual official Marvel continuity. I will also explain each encounter in detail. Unfortunately, all fights and situations are not always so clear cut and I've tried my very best to be fair, objective and unbiased about the outcome of each battle. At the end, I tallied up the totals so you can come to your own conclusions and be the judge to see who holds the overall edge in this incredible match up.

THE AVENGERS #3 (1964)

After escaping from the Avengers, the "Gravage" Hulk meets up with Namor for the first time on an island. The Hulk thinks Namor is just another human and attacks him! At first, the Hulk dominates on land, but then Namor will tackle the brute into the sea. In the waters, the Avenging Son has the Hulk utterly helpless with his aquatic-skills and swims a whirlpool around the brute that makes him disoriented. Soon the Hulk is shown mercy as Namor pulls him out of the waters, dizzy and defeated. RESULT: WIN SUB-MARINER

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 1 HULK: 0 - SUB-MARINER: 1

TALES TO ASTONISH #100 (1968)

Under the control of the Puppet Master, the "Gravage" Hulk attacks and has a legendary battle with Namor! This fight rages all over the city and sea with both combatants going back and forth. At this point in the fight, a raging-mad Hulk will go toe-to-toe with a wet Namor on land and gets the better of him. Now Namor must take to the air and take breather after the brutes savage onslaught. RESULT: WIN HULK (Although Namor was not knocked out by the Hulk's attack, he did have to remove himself from the fight because he was getting hurt in this exchange. I had to give the Hulk the "win" because Namor needed to recompose himself before he engaged the brute again.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 2 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 1

Now they fight again as Namor stands ready and tactically brings the Hulk to the beach were he drags the fight under the water again so he can gain the advantage. The Hulk now fights awkwardly as he tries to muster up his last ounce of strength to resist the control of the Puppet Master. Namor will take this advantage to put the Hulk in a whirlpool and even though the Hulk breaks free from this, Namor greets him with a punch to the face that sends him back into it. The Puppet Master is soon caught in a big wave that will destroy his lab and release the Hulk from his control. When Namor finds the Hulk again, he finds Bruce Banner washed up on the shore unconscious. The Sub-Mariner would soon leave back into the sea as Banner is beneath his notice. RESULT: WIN SUB-MARINER (This is not a definitive "win" for Namor by any means as the Hulk was continually battling the Puppet Master's control and this hindered his ability to fight.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 3 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 2

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #118 (1969)

Lady Dorma finds Bruce Banner unconscious floating in the sea. She takes pity on Bruce and puts him into her ship while giving him a 24-hour air tablet so he can breathe freely under the water. Now Dorma will take Bruce down into the sea for medical attention, not realizing that she has just brought the "Savage" Hulk to Atlantis. When Namor finds out about this (by Mistress Fara who is jealous about his relationship with Dorma) he flies into a rage looking for the human and unexpectedly finds himself confronted by the Hulk!! They fight back and forth with Fara dying in the process from the wreckage (as she was trying to kill Dorma). At the end, Namor and the Hulk collide into each other hurling each combatant back countless fathoms. Namor eventually gets his strength restored by the waters and manages to stop himself and spots the Hulk's limp body rocketing out of the sea. Namor will then swim after the Hulk and surprisingly finds a passed out Bruce Banner instead. Namor will turn back into the sea as Banner is (once again) beneath his notice. Bottom line in this outcome was that Namor was able to take the impact while the Hulk could not. RESULT: WIN SUB-MARINER

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 4 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE SUB-MARINER #34 (1970)

When the "Savage" Hulk sees Namor and the Silver Surfer in the sky, he leaps up and attacks them. A small scrap ensues as Namor and the Surfer try to convince the brute that they want to befriend him. But the Hulk doesn't trust them and continually attacks. Soon this fight gets interrupted by the San Pablo Army. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 5 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE SUB-MARINER #35 (1970)

After a battle with the Avengers, the "Savage" Hulk, Namor and the Silver Surfer must settle their differences with them after they realize that the nuclear reactor they thought was going to explode won't. Naturally this frustrates the Hulk even further, who wants to smash the reactor so it won't cause any more problems. This will make Namor and the Surfer leap onto the brute and try to restrain him. But the raging Hulk will thrown them off and leap away already forgetting about the reactor. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 6 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

MARVEL FEATURE #1 (1971)

With Dr. Strange trying to stop the Omegatron, the "Savage" Hulk and Namor attack him thinking he is an impostor. Strange will magically make Namor appear as a monster and the Hulk appear as Llyra so they will ignore him and fight each other. After Strange defeats the robot, he will then lift the spell the Hulk and Namor are under and stop them from fighting. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 7 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

MARVEL FEATURE #2 (1972)

While running from the local authorities, the "Savage" Hulk and Namor both end up in a dark alley. Soon they end up attacking each other but stop once they realize who the other is. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 8 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE DEFENDERS #52 (1977)

The "Savage" Hulk tries to greet Namor, who is walking the streets of New York looking for Reed Richards. But with the Sea Lord in dire need of his assistance, he brushes the Hulk aside not wanting to get interrupted by the brute. This infuriates the Hulk and he attacks! At first, Namor wants to avoid a major fight, but with the Hulk raging, it will now be impossible. The two savages both go back and fourth all over the city, causing some major destruction before the other Defenders show up to break them up. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 9 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE DEFENDERS #83 (1980)

With the "Savage" Hulk possessed by Xhoohx and the Orb of Ommennon, Dr. Strange, Namor and Aeroika fight enemy illusions inside the brutes imagination while trying to free him. Soon the Hulk and Xhoohx attack and the brawl starts. The Hulk and Namor go back and forth until Dr. Strange frees the Green Goliath from the magical control. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 10 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE DEFENDERS #84 (1980)

While the Defenders try to relax in Atlantis, Warlord Ronga and some Atlanteans makes a shady deal with Wakanda. This leads to an eventual argument between Namor and the Black Panther, who escapes the Sub-Mariner's attack to wake up a sedated Bruce Banner. And with a few slaps, the "Savage" Hulk emerges in a rage! When Namor enters the room, he tells the Hulk to calm himself but the brute screams and smashes Namor through an Atlantean wall. Unknown to the Hulk at the time, he was underwater and begins to drown. Namor will show mercy and save the brute by bringing him back inside the castle. When the Hulk awakens, he is still angry and ungrateful. Now the Hulk will leap away smashing himself through the Atlantean castle ceiling and back to the surface. RESULT: EDGE SUB-MARINER (Although Namor had the startled, drowning Hulk at his mercy, he ended up saving the brute than actually defeating him.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 11 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE DEFENDERS #93 (1981)

Nebulon tricks Namor into fighting the Defenders with his Atlantean Army. In this battle, Namor and the "Savage" Hulk will never get at each other. But when the monarch tells his troops to take out his "sonic scrambler", it will knock out all the Defenders (including the Hulk). Eventually, Namor sees the trick and teams back up with the Defenders to defeat Nebulon. RESULT: NO CONTEST (This match up has to be ranked this because although Namor and the Hulk were on opposite sides of the battlefield, they never even fought.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 12 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

DEATH OF CAPTAIN MARVEL GRAPHIC NOVEL (1982)

Heroes go to pay their respects to Captain Mar-vell, who is dying of cancer. A splash page shows the "Savage" Hulk amused by Tigra's flirtation and beauty as Namor tries to restrain him. Hercules is not happy about this interaction and is trying to get at the brute while also being held back. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 13 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE DEFENDERS #119 (1983)

A tale from the Defenders past. Yandroth first takes control of the "Savage" Hulk's mind and makes him attack the Defenders to eventually gain access into the Sanctum of Dr. Strange. Although knocked unconscious by the Hulk, Dr. Strange still manages to summon Namor who shows up and starts to slug it out with the mind-controlled Hulk (who fights sluggishly under the control). Dr. Strange will soon free the Hulk and the others from the control. Seeing this, Yandroth will take possession of Namor's mind and make him continue his slugfest with the Hulk. Free from the mind-control, the Hulk finds it difficult to understand what is going on around him, but he relishes the fight with Namor and continues to brawl it out with him. Soon the Defenders manage to release everyone under the control and they all defeat Yandroth. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 14 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE DEFENDERS #123 (1983)

The Hulk (with Bruce Banner's brain), the Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange have to restrain Namor on two occasions as he tries to kill the Elf who has brought them to future by the Veil of Time. With Banner in control of the Hulk, Namor is the short-fuse that everyone must control for the sake of the mission. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 15 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE DEFENDERS #124 (1983)

Once again, the temperamental Namor has to be restrained from attacking by the Hulk (with Bruce Banner's brain), the Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange during this adventure. He manages to escape from them and almost get's killed by a shock blast and as Namor falls, he is saved by the Hulk. It's funny seeing the Hulk talking sense into Namor after this careless move, because usually it's Namor himself always trying to talk sense into the Hulk. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 16 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #316 (1985)

Namor attacks the "Mindless" Hulk with fellow Avengers; Iron Man, Wonder Man and Hercules. The battle is titanic with a ton of destruction, but the heroes don't make much progress in stopping the crazed behemoth. Soon Doc Samson comes along to convince them to let him try and stop the Hulk first so it won't cause as much damage to the city. Now Namor and the others stop their attack on the brute and attack Samson! As the Hulk loses interest in the battle in front of him, he leaps away. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 17 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #321 (1986)

Namor will attack the "Mindless" Hulk with 10 other Avengers helping him out. In this intense scrap, the team is buried under a building by the Hulk. While the Hulk now goes off fighting other Avengers, Captain America and the big guns regroup and decide to fight the beast at full-force! RESULT: EDGE HULK (The Hulk got the "edge" by burying Namor and his Avenger teammates, but they were still in the fight and far from defeated.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 18 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

Namor and the rest of the Avengers attack the "Mindless" Hulk again, battling the brute to a standstill. She-Hulk shows up and breaks it up to try to talk the Hulk down. When the Hulk punches her to the ground, they regroup and all decide that this Hulk must die to save the world. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 19 HULK: 1 - SUB-MARINER: 3

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #322 (1986)

Namor with 11 other Avengers (including Hercules, Iron Man, Wonder Man and She-Hulk) attack the "Mindless" Hulk! Soon Namor will make a solo attack on the wild brute and due to being dehydrated by the heat of the desert, he is tackled to the ground by the Hulk and knocked out! Luckily, Hercules comes in and saves Namor's life. RESULT: WIN HULK

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 20 HULK: 2 - SUB-MARINER: 3

Despite being so weak from the desert heat, Namor recovers and once again attacks the "Mindless" Hulk. First, he will be saved by Wonder Man in a big pile up. But being the proud-warrior he is and willing to die with honor, Namor will see the Hulk destroying Iron Man and break free from Wonder Man's grip to attack the brute again! It proves costly, as the Hulk easily dispatches Namor's attack and begins to pummel the Sea King into unconsciousness. Once again, Hercules steps in to save Namor's life. RESULT: WIN HULK

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 21 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 3

Namor recovers again and attacks on the "Mindless" Hulk with the help of all the Avengers (Namor has a ton of heart despite being so weak and dehydrated), but nothing could slow the monster down. Soon (due to the fact that the Hulk was currently separated from Bruce Banner) the Hulk begins to weaken and finally falls. RESULT: WIN SUB-MARINER (This is by no means a definitive "win" for Namor as he had the help of 11 Avenger teammates. And the Hulk only fell because he was losing his strength and power due to his separation from Bruce Banner.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 22 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

NAMOR THE SUB-MARINER ANNUAL #1 (1991)

Heroes delay Namor so they can have a surprise birthday for him. When it's up to the "Professor" Hulk, he really takes it to Namor and gives him a pretty good whooping. But then it begins to rain and Namor fights back with renewed strength. In the end, Sue Richards breaks them up and stops the fight so they can party. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 23 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE INCREDIBLE HULK AND SUB-MARINER ANNUAL (1998)

Blaming himself for his wife's death (Betty Ross), Bruce Banner puts a gun on his head. He fails to shoot himself, but the boat he was in sinks and carries him down. Before fully turning into the "Bannerless" Hulk, Bruce exhalates the air left in his lungs. The Hulk is then saved by Zantor, an underwater scientist working for Attuma. Zantor takes the Hulk into a ship and injects him with a water-breather elixir that keeps him alive. Though the Hulk has talked underwater several times during their fights, this is the first time that Hulk could officially breathe underwater and his skin became blue as a result. The "Blue" Hulk soon wakes up very weak and manages to escape. But Zantor had taken some of the Hulk's blood and injected it into Vashti (a close friend of Namor), this turns him into a gamma spawned monster. Namor finds the Hulk in the ocean and he is upset that the brute’s blood has also given Attuma boosted powers. The Hulk is kinda touchy about the blood issue because it was supposedly his blood that killed Betty (which later proved to be the Abomination's blood instead), so they slug it out. Without any hindrance from the depths of the sea, the Hulk really takes it to Namor in this scrap and handles the Sea King pretty decisively. But it is stopped once the gamma-infected Vashti shows up and they join forces to defeat him. RESULT: EDGE HULK (This fight has a little controversy at the end because one could interpret that the Hulk was going to land a final blow on Namor. Or it could be that Namor just stopped fighting back when he sees Vashti in his gamma-form. Either way, the Hulk really took it to Namor (showing that he is quite capable of fighting and dominating the Sub-Mariner in the depths) so I had to give the Hulk the definite "edge" in this brawl, but it cannot be considered a "win".)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 24 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE DEFENDERS #1 (2001)

In the woods near Point Promontory, the Silver Surfer, Namor, Dr. Strange and the "Savage" Hulk suddenly appear from thin air. Namor accuses Strange of this doing and insists he is returned to his home, but the magician is quick to deny any involvement. It takes mere seconds before the accusations of stupidity fly and then the Hulk and Namor are at it with their fists. While Strange tries to break up the fight explaining that they must find the one who summoned them, the Hulk slams the ground sending Dr. Strange and Namor flying. The Surfer simply cannot understand the mindless rage which drives Earth's mortals. He sends a cosmic bolt between the two which drives them apart. This only causes the two savages to turn their rage on him. Suddenly, the din is disrupted by a woman's voice. Hellcat arrives in time to inform the group that it was she who summoned them because the world was in danger. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 25 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

Now standing over the fallen Yandroth, Namor demands that Strange send him home. The "Savage" Hulk steps up and with a blow to the back offers to send the fish-man home. The pair tussle as Strange demands they stand down and be quiet while Yandroth dies. They do not listen and continue to slug it out. The Silver Surfer looks on in disdain, once again seeing the madness that is mankind. Strange asks if they are men or children and commands them to stop at once. They do long enough to hear Yandroth curse them with for their actions. He can think of no greater punishment for them all, but to band together even when they do not want to. He then dies. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 26 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

Variant Cover

THE DEFENDERS #2 (2001)

A confused "Savage" Hulk, Silver Surfer, Namor and Dr. Strange appear on a mountain in a green flash of light. The Hulk is the first to wonder where he is...and he also asks why the "fish-man" wears such funny clothes. Namor is not amused, he tells the Hulk to still his tongue and then announces immediately that he must return to Atlantis and fight Attuma. As the Hulk watches him go, Dr. Strange explains to the Surfer that it was Yandroth's curse which was responsible for their gathering. In his defeat, Yandroth sought to punish the Defenders by banding them together against their wills, when the need arose. Suddenly, Namor reappears and he is furious. Namor turns on Dr. Strange in a rage and exclaims that his people are in danger and that he must return to Atlantis at once. Strange quietly explains that it is not within his power to do so. The Hulk comes up behind the fuming Atlantean King and puts his hand on his shoulder. He relates that he too, has no desire to be here because of the cold and snow and if the "dumb magician" cannot send the "fish-man" home, then the Hulk will help him smash those responsible for bringing them here and then he will help Namor smash Attuma as well! However, the Sub-Mariner is too angry and demands that the Hulk not touch him and he brushes off his great green hand. A mischievous look washes over the Hulk's face as he watches the King of Atlantis fume. In defiance, the jade giant gently places his index finger on Namor's shoulder and says "touch". Well, Namor just spins on the Hulk and wallops him with a resounding left hook that sends the behemoth flying! With his patience all but gone, Namor continues to battle it out with the Hulk. The Surfer asks Strange if there is not some way he can end this wanton destruction. Dr. Strange replies to let them fight for he is not the keeper of these children. Suddenly, a gunshot rings out over the snow covered mountainside. This brings the battle between the Hulk and Namor to a stop and it also draws the attention of the Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 27 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE DEFENDERS #4 (2001)

After defeating Pluto and his army in an epic battle, the Defenders regroup and all part ways. Before the "Savage" Hulk, Dr. Strange and the Silver Surfer are about to leave, Namor asks them to aid him in his journey back to Atlantis to fight Attuma who has taken over his undersea kingdom. Dr. Strange says that they will, but first they must study, then break the curse. Otherwise, traveling to Atlantis would be pointless because as soon as another crisis arises, they would be swept away once again. He suggests they all return to his sanctum in New York. Namor calls Strange mad and then turns to ask if there are any others willing to help. The Hulk spits a raspberry right in the Sub-Mariner's face as there is no way he is going to help the fish-man. Surprisingly, Namor does not attack the brute, he leaves the Defenders wanting nothing more to do with them. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 28 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE DEFENDERS #6 (2001)

The "Savage" Hulk attacks the Bi-Beast and the two fight until the Hulk is knocked off Sky Island. The "Curse of Yandroth" teleports him back and they battle again until Red Raven and the Avian's show up. Dr. Strange then traps the Hulk in a mystical red ball so he'll stop fighting. Suddenly Nighthawk, Valkyrie and Hellcat appear and the rest of the Defenders tell the Avian's that there is probably a threat that needs to be found on the island. As they prepare to leave and Strange releases the Hulk, believing he has calmed down. But the Hulk surprises Strange and punches him in the face, wounding him. Now the Hulk attacks the Bi Beast again with Namor trying to stop the crazed brute. The Hulk punches Namor to the floor but is finally calmed down by the Valkyrie. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 29 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE DEFENDERS #12 (2002)

Namor points out to Dr. Strange that the "Savage" Hulk isn’t wearing any pants. Strange will magically give the Hulk some clown pants and the brute gets angry about it. The Hulk now starts walking towards Strange, but he notices that he can’t make any noise while he is shouting. The Hulk then smashes the ground in frustration while Strange tries to calm him, but the Hulk remains confused. Surfer shows the brute an illusion of a little Earth blowing up, he is still confused. Namor gets a rock and scratches a message into the ground telling the Hulk that they have to find the bad guy or Earth will be destroyed. The Hulk is still confused but settles down to study Namor’s message while the others leave in disgust to look for the bad guy. The Hulk sits dumb founded looking at the message but then notices something and tries to yell for the others, but still finds himself unable to make any noise. The Hulk notices rock moving under his feet and looks around to see dozens of rock monsters coming out of the ground. The Hulk will continue to shout again and again. Finally, frustrated the brute throws a rock and hits Namor in the head. Namor turns around angry and sees the Hulk fighting all the rock creatures. Namor quickly collects Surfer and Strange to join in the battle. As they fight, the Hulk knocks one of the creatures’ heads off and it hits Namor in the back of the head. Namor turns around angry again, but this time he is greeted with another rock in the face. Namor gets ticked and throws a big rock at the back of the Hulk’s head and as the brute turns around raging, he acts like nothing happened. All the Defenders fight and fight and eventually defeat all the rock creatures. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 30 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE ORDER #4 (2002)

The members of the Order (Namor, Dr. Strange and the Silver Surfer) decide they have to change the "Gray" Hulk incarnation to one that is not so perverse. Surfer and Strange will hold the brute in an energy field as they try to summon up a new personality. Soon the "Savage" Hulk emerges and breaks free from the field! Namor and the Surfer will stop the brute, but once the Surfer let's go, the Hulk continues to pound on Namor and begins to choke the Sea King out! Quickly, Dr. Strange steps in to help out Namor by summoning the "Professor" Hulk and this stops the fight. RESULT: EDGE HULK (While this is a short fight without any definitive result, the Hulk did have Namor at his mercy by choking him at the end of it. Once Dr. Strange stepped in and summoned a "nicer" Hulk personality, the brute let go of Namor's neck.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 31 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE ORDER #6 (2002)

The Order (consisting of the "Professor" Hulk, Namor, Dr. Strange and the Silver Surfer) are all under the influence of Yandroth, where they want to make the world a better place--because they have the power to do it! Obviously, the heroes of the world would never allow this to happen as they engage Order battles in a battle for the ages. Eventually, the fighting stops once the Order are all free from Yandroth's power. At the end, Namor has to restrain the Hulk from attacking Captain America. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 32 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

THE DEFENDERS #1 (2005)

Namor and Bruce Banner toss insults at each other as Dr. Strange tries to calm them down. Once Banner calls Namor the "Little Mermaid", the Sea Lord cannot contain himself and backhand smacks Banner to the floor. This causes Bruce to transform into the "Savage" Hulk as Namor stands ready for another brawl between the two. But before anything can happen, Dr. Strange teleports everyone away. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 33 HULK: 3 - SUB-MARINER: 4

Variant Cover

HULK #10 (2008)

Elders of the Universe, the Grandmaster and the Collector want to play a game involving some of Earth's greatest heroes. The "Savage" Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange are plucked from time in their moment of greatest sorrow. They are each just about to lose, or have already lost, their greatest love. And since they would do anything to save their loved ones, they make the perfect pawns in the Elders schemes. While being led by the Silver Surfer, Namor rushes from the depths of the sea to the surface (raging from the death of his wife Lady Dorma on their wedding day), he sees the Hulk and attacks in a seething fury. The Hulk will stop Namor's assault and smash him to the pavement. Then the Hulk will hold Namor down as the Silver Surfer and the brute tell him what forces are at work. Humbled, but still incensed, Namor says he will listen and play along...for now. RESULT: WIN HULK (This result should generate some controversy, but the Hulk has to be given credit for totally overpowering and humbling a wet Namor here. And with Namor being held down (while going all out) by the brute, it clearly shows who has the strength advantage between the two. I had to give the Hulk the "win" in this fight due to the complete control he had over Namor (even to the point of holding Namor down with one hand), although it was not a definitive victory by any means. I'm sure Sub-Mariner fanboys will discredit this, but either way, Namor looked bad and nobody can deny that.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 34 HULK: 4 - SUB-MARINER: 4

MARVEL VAULT: THE DEFENDERS ONE-SHOT (2011)

An untold tale of the Defenders past. The "Savage" Hulk, Dr Strange, Namor and the Silver Surfer are transported to a rural idyll. Or at least, their bodies are. Their minds are somewhere else, replaced by those of four college students, gamers who have collided with the Curse of Yandroth which brings the ever-squabbling Defenders together whenever the Earth is threatened. Luckily, the students have some knowledge of the Defenders, and rather than panic, they begin to enjoy their cameo appearances. The Silver Surfer is reunited with lost love Shalla-Bal; Namor has an undersea picnic with Lady Dorma; the Hulk builds sandcastles with the Abomination; and Dr. Strange becomes one with the Cosmos while telling a rather good joke. Eventually the real Defenders wake up, trapped in a weird machine. Strange and the Surfer surmise that they've been affected by alien refugees seeking to bond with the people of Earth by sending them into a happy dream state. The Hulk and Namor loose their cool and start a back and forth punch up while swapping insults and saying uncharacteristic things as the students still resonate in their minds. A spell combined with the Power Cosmic puts things right, sending the students' minds to their home bodies. RESULT: DRAW

FINAL TALLY: MATCH UPS: 35 HULK: 4 - SUB-MARINER: 4

OTHER ENCOUNTERS

The Hulk and Namor have fought a bunch of times in non-cannon stories. I've noticed throughout the years that both Hulk and Namor fans often make arguments showing these comics to make claims to their debates. But truth be told, despite some interesting stories, these issues don't count. I see them as writers interpretations of “Hulk vs Sub-Mariner” battles without continuity restraints so they always have fun twists of “What could have been.” Listed here are not all, but the best of the best of the Hulk and Sub-Mariner battles that occurred outside of actual Marvel continuity. I also listed comics that had the Hulk and Namor fighting each other while some one else was in control of their bodies. While these fight cannot be regarded as an actual fight between the two, it does have a place in this write up.

NOT BRAND ECHH #9 (1968)

A parody retelling of the classic "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" clash from Tales to Astonish #100. But this time it's the "Bulk vs the Sunk-Mariner" in a battle to the finish in the story called, "Bet There'll be Battle!" The Bulk and the Sunk-Mariner hilariously fight all over the city for your enjoyment. A fun read for any "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" fan as Marie Severin (the original artist on TTA #100) does the art duties here and does a good job of making fun of herself.

AVENGERS ANNUAL #2 (1968)

The Avengers (including the "Gravage" Hulk, Captain America, Thor, Giant Man and Wasp) from another dimension go on a tear through their Earth defeating and pummeling all the heroes and villains on it. When the team comes up against Namor, they defeat him but the Hulk feels bad because he thinks that they should be friends.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #139 (1971)

The Leader conjures up holograms of the "Savage" Hulk's greatest enemies to try and give the brute a heart-attack by continually attacking him. When the Namor hologram strikes, he tackles the Hulk into the water. But the Hulk fights back and shoves Namor into the mud where he becomes stuck.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #200 (1976)

The "Savage" Hulk (with a special helmet on that gives Bruce Banner's brain control of the Hulk) battles illusions of his greatest foes inside the infected mind of Glenn Talbot. There, an illusion of Namor is among the many foes that attack and get defeated by the raging Hulk (who has long destroyed the helmet) which eventually frees Talbot from the control.

WHAT IF #3 (1977)

An alternate world tale where the "Savage" Hulk departures from the Avengers which causes a rift that led to the end of the Avengers, since they felt they couldn't go after him. Stark contacts Rick Jones to find the Hulk, while Thor went back to Asgard and Jan and Hank went back to being "normal" people.

Rick locates the Hulk and goes after him on his own, and is being held hostage when Stark goes to rescue him. They barely survived the Hulk encounter, and managed to make it back to the Mansion.

Namor and the Hulk fight to a standstill and then team up to challenged the Avengers to a fight to the death. Stark accepts the challenge, and builds Iron Man armor for Hank, Jan and Rick so they can all stand up to the Hulk and Namor together.

He introduces the armor to the other three, who can't control themselves in it, and decide to stay in retirement instead of wearing the armor, much to Stark's dismay. Alone again, he overrides the limits of his own armor, and transfers more than the maximum amount of energy into it, setting him up to fight one final ultimate battle.

He starts out the fight fairly well against the two savages, but ends up about to be finished off when Jan, Hank, and Rick show up in their armor, able to turn the tides. Hank takes a hard hit from Hulk and is relying on his armor to keep him alive, so Tony transfers the energy that was keeping his heart going into Hank's armor, allowing him to pound on the Hulk, while Namor is continuing to pound on Rick. As soon as Hulk realizes that it's Rick that Namor is pounding on, he stops fighting the rest of the Avengers, and starts fighting with Namor. They fight to a standstill under the water, and part ways neutrally.

The rest of the Armored Avengers mourn Tony Stark's sacrifice and death.

THE RAMPAGING HULK MAGAZINE #5 (1977)

This classic untold two-part tale of the first meeting between the "Savage" Hulk and Namor has been written out of official Hulk-continuity and become nothing more than a fictional movie from an alien Hulk-fangirl named Bereet. It was such a shame, because these fights stand as the greatest "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" slugfests ever!

Bruce Banner will see Namor attack an enraged mob (who knocked out Bereet with a brick) and change into the Hulk. They have a HUGE back and forth battle (that I personally think is one of the greatest Marvel slugfests ever) until the Army steps in and separates them. As the Hulk attacks the tanks, Namor will take the unconscious Bereet and fly off to find out more information. As the Hulk walks off, Rick Jones yells at the brute to help her, but he just wants to be left alone.

THE RAMPAGING HULK MAGAZINE #6 (1977)

Part-two of the first meeting between the "Savage" Hulk and Namor concludes in this issue. Unfortunately, despite how good these stories are to the "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" mythos, it will later be revealed to be just a movie made by the alien Bereet.

The Hulk and Rick (in respiration gear) swim down to Atlantis and are confronted by Namor and his guardsmen. The brute demands that Namor release Bereet and Namor agrees as long as honor is served in a rite of combat between the two sides. The Hulk on one side and Namor on the other. They battle using armor and weapons, but it is obvious that Namor's underwater combat skills, speed and weapon training give him the edge, so the Hulk decides to destroy and toss aside the armor and weapons and slug it out hand-to-hand. The Hulk now evens up the odds as the two savage combatants battle to an incredible stalemate as the Krylorian assault Atlantis. Namor, realizing that Bereet's claims were true, asks the Hulk to join him in defending the city. The two, along with the Atlantean guard, defeat the Krylorian attackers forcing them to flee. Because of the Hulk's help, Namor allows the three of them to leave in peace.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #371 (1990)

The Dark One takes control of the "Gray" Hulk's body and slugs it out with Namor. Dr. Strange eventually ends the fight when he finds a way to free the Hulk from the control. Soon they all team up and defeat the Dark One.

WHAT IF #27 (1991)

An alternate world tale that shows Namor teammates with the Fantastic Four (called the Fantastic Five). With Namor and the Thing as the resident powerhouses and being a formidable pair, a panel shows them teaming up and defeating the "Savage" Hulk handily.

REAL HEROES #2 (1994)

After a mind-controlled "Professor" Hulk makes short work of Storm and Wolverine, now it's up to Namor to stop the brute. Both savages battle to a standstill until the Hulk comes back to his senses. I have to admit, this was a great showing from both Namor and the Hulk, they looked like complete equals in this fight.

WHAT IF #68 (1994)

An alternate world tale that includes a Nazi-controlled "Savage" Hulk fighting with Namor and the X-Patriots. While Namor has a good scrap with the brute here, it looks like this raging Hulk was more than a match for this team.

AVATAARZ: COVENANT OF THE SHIELD #1 (2000)

Set in a sword and sorcery reality of the Marvel Universe, the Hulk (Greenskyn Smashtroll) has a brief scrap with Namor (Merman Manor) and the Avengers (Champions of the Realm).

MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END #3 (2003)

Although this was originally solicited as an out-of-continuity story, like all the other The End comics, Marvel: The End was later confirmed as a part of the Marvel Universe by references to the series in the Thanos (2004) ongoing series and, later, in the 2006 editions of the Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe. Marvel editor Tom Brevoort has stated that the series - or, at least, events similar to those depicted in the series - actually did occur in the Marvel Universe. So with this being the case, I couldn't list this as an official in-continuity issue in this write up.

In this story, even with the fate of the universe hanging in the balance, Namor can't handle the "Savage" Hulk's harassment and slugs the brute. A brawl soon follows with both combatants getting separated by Thanos who traps them in individual force-fields.

MARVEL ADVENTURES: HULK #6 (2007)

Bruce Banner faces law and order Atlantis-style when his latest attempt to cure himself creates a plague of gamma-infected marine life. Once Namor finds Banner, he soon finds himself in a slugfest with the "Savage" Hulk! Eventually, Namor drags the Hulk into the sea and next we see Banner in chains. In the end, the Hulk and Namor team up and together they capture the gamma-infected sea creatures.

THE END??

First, I would like to say that it has really been a pleasure to do this write up. "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" is truly one of my absolute favorite battles in all of comicdom and I have been a fan of this rivalry ever since I was a kid. Looking back on all these battles today, made me realize how much fun I had when I first read them. All their fights (especially the battles from Tales to Astonish #100, The Incredible Hulk #118, The Defenders #52 and The Rampaging Hulk Magazine #5 and 6) totally captured my imagination as these two maniacs really beat the hell out of each other. Their fights were much different from "Hulk vs Thor" or "Hulk vs Thing" in my eyes. For some reason, when the Hulk clashed with Namor, it seemed to be more personal and more brutal than any of the other rivalries I've read. They were both so intent on showing their superiority over the other, that I really felt the intensity between them. And to tell you the truth, I loved every page of it.

It also frustrates me how "Hulk vs Wolverine" has surpassed this rivalry in terms of the two characters being uneasy allies and fighting to an unparalleled level of savagery (I know it's mostly due to popularity because not many characters are as popular as the ol' Canucklehead). Sure, the Hulk and Wolverine had to try hard to get along and they had a lot of blood and spit thrown into the mix, but you always knew the Hulk was going to smash Wolverine no matter how hard the little guy fought, how much he healed, or how sharp his claws were. "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" never had that dynamic, in this fight you never knew what was going to happen or who was going to win. "How long could Namor fight the Hulk on land before his strength diminished?", "How will the Hulk get out of the water with Namor attacking him?", "How many more times will they fight before they defeat the enemy?" This rivalry had so many interesting aspects that it always kept my attention. And early on, the Sub-Mariner legitimately defeated the Hulk in the water (on more than one occasion) and fought him to a virtual standstill on land many times with reckless abandon. This was something you rarely ever saw and it was something that Super-Heavyweights; Thor, Hercules and Juggernaut couldn't claim to have ever done. Simply put, Namor will always be a true threat to the Green Goliath and anyone else he faces. And because of this, "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" will always be the king of the "savage" scraps to me and that will never change.

But now to wrap up this great rivalry!! After 35 official match ups, the Hulk and Namor tied dead even at 4 to 4. Although a few of those wins and loses are without some controversies, a few of them are legit. And those wins are in each combatants chosen element with Namor triumphant in water and the Hulk on land (which should be no surprise to anyone). But they did have an interesting fight that made some revelations when the Hulk was unaffected by the depths of the sea in The Incredible Hulk / Sub-Mariner Annual 1998. This battle showed that without any hindrance, the Hulk is quite capable of matching Namor's skills underwater. Also the Hulk has been shown to be the stronger of the two regardless if Namor was wet or not (as seen in Tales to Astonish #100 and Hulk #10). The whole "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" dynamic might get even more interesting now that the Hulk realizes he is able to breathe underwater without any problems. Let's just hope writers don't discredit this new revelation in the Hulk's power so we can see it.

The Hulk never knew he could breathe underwater. Now that he does, it will pose a new interesting dynamic in his battles with the Sub-Mariner.

In my opinion, I would have to give the Hulk the slight overall edge in this match up, because the longer it goes, the more the fight turns in his favor. It's pretty much the same old Hulk formula that he needs to be defeated before he can get really mad and amped up. But make no mistake about it, the Sub-Mariner is one of the most powerful and dangerous beings on Earth, capable of defeating any Super-Heavyweight in the Marvel Universe, with the Hulk being no exception. In water, Namor is obviously the favorite due to his tremendous aquatic-skills, but the Hulk is still quite capable of winning this fight in the sea as well. And as the Hulk continues to get stronger, it will become tougher and tougher for Namor. Hey, this is Namor's element and he will win the majority of the time, as he should.

But regardless who you think should win or which character you like better, "Hulk vs Sub-Mariner" will always be a classic and legendary battle in the annals of Marvel history. And despite its decline in popularity through the decades, this will never change.

Agree? Disagree? Let's hear it fanboys!! IMPERIUS REX!!

Check out other "DEFINITIVE WRITE UPS" here:

Superman vs Captain Marvel

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/05/superman-vs-captain-marvel.html

Thor vs Ulik

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/07/thor-vs-ulik.html

Hulk vs Thor

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/09/hulk-vs-thor.html

Hulk vs Juggernaut

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011_12_01_archive.html

Hulk vs Hercules

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/01/hulk-vs-hercules.html

John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central

John Cimino is a Silver and Bronze Age Marvel comic, cartoon and memorabilia expert and has been writing and starring in the "Hero Envy" webisode series. He is also the host of the Reckless Sidekick "Swass-Cast" and has contributed to the "Hero Envy" comic book. He also thinks he's really Captain Marvel, people just don't have the heart to tell him he's just an obsessed fanboy that borders on the insane.

HULK VS HERCULES

2012-01-15T08:00:00.028-05:00

HULK VS HERCULES

THE DEFINITIVE WRITE UP ON THE BATTLE TO PROVE WHO'S THE STRONGEST ONE THERE IS

John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino

While not as legendary as "Hulk vs Thor", the Hulk slugging it out with another famous immortal, Hercules, the Son of Zeus is still an absolute classic Marvel match up. Yes, Hercules is a true heavyweight in the Marvel Universe in every sense, but he has always been considered a notch below the Thunder God. And truth be told, that shouldn't be the case because they are very comparable. Both Hercules and Thor are considered the strongest and greatest warriors of their respective pantheons (Olympian and Asgardian) with legendary histories that have made them worshiped and idolized since the early days of man. And when it comes to their physical stats, they are almost identical (I would give Hercules the slight edge in hand-to-hand combat that even Thor himself admitted was greater than his ability). They have always been close allies and true peers that are full of pride and very proud of their heritage, so this also makes them highly competitive with each other. They have even slugged it out on a few occasions with neither being able to truly defeat the other.

So Hercules is without a doubt one of the most powerful beings walking the Earth and is always in the conversations of fanboys when talking about strength and ability. I think it's the fact that Herc is known for being more of a head-strong, woman-crazed buffoon and that usually hurt his reputation, especially when being compared to the well-respected Thunderer. Plus, Thor wields one of the most powerful weapons in the universe with Mjolnir. This combined with his godly control of the weather makes Thor such a feared and ferocious opponent. Not to mention, Thor is also a pure Asgardian "God" while Hercules is more of an Olympian "Demigod" (half-deity and half-mortal), so all this gives Thor more clout than Hercules could ever muster up and rightly so. But both immortals at their best could defeat the villain, save the day and get the girl. Herc just had a habit of enjoying himself (and the rewards) a little more than most and he wasn't shy about telling you about it. Not to mention, that Herc had a habit of being a little more reckless in proving his worth to powerful opponents (like the Hulk) than most heroes. He wasn't above feeding his ego regardless of his teams battle-plan and he never took into account the innocent bystanders or real estate that was nearby.

"Hercules vs Thor" is an absolute classic slugfest in the annals of Marvel's rich history. This was a match up of both of Mythologies greatest warriors battling it out to see who was really the best of the best. Neither immortal had ever truly won a fight to show who was the superior. But it did showcase the power of Hercules and proved that he is every bit of a powerhouse that Thor is.

But I always believed Hercules fighting the Hulk was a better match up stylistically than "Hulk vs Thor" ever was. While Thor usually battled the brute with Mjolnir at his side, Herc never used a weapon. Yes, Herc had his Golden Mace (which is below the power of Mjolnir) but he never used it. "Hulk vs Hercules" was more of a hand-to-hand, strength-on-strength and brawl-vs-skill type of fight to prove who was the better man. This fight had more of a "Hulk vs Thing" dynamic to it without such a vast difference in power levels. Sure, Herc didn't have the excitement and tension between himself and the Hulk that captured the imagination of fans the way the Thing did, but it wasn't that far behind. And fighting the Hulk was always a true test to Herc's manhood. If he could best the green goliath in physical combat, he would be considered the strongest being on Earth without any doubt (Herc has always respected the Hulk's power and has been envious of it, although he would never admit it). It was going to be another glorious battle for Hercules to be apart of that would enhance his legend and ego and that's all that really mattered.

And speaking of ego, it doesn't get any more bigger or narcissistic than these two muscle-heads. The Hulk, just so happened to have a habit of calling himself "The strongest one there is!" and saying that he wanted to be left alone. But in reality, he was never going to walk away from a fight, especially if someone was claiming to be stronger than him. And Herc was always ready to give someone "The Gift!" (a hearty punch) if they were worthy enough and score a willing-beautiful-fair-maiden in the process (he also had a habit of not understanding why some women could occasionally resist his charm). Yup, these guys had their reasons, and the foremost reason despite everything else was..."EGO."

When it came to having a huge ego, very few could match the one that Hercules had. He loved to spend time in the world of men celebrating everything life had to offer. His escapades are the stuff of legend and his desire for the female flesh is almost as great as his immense strength. And if danger broke out in the middle of a party, well then that's even better.

All in all, "Hulk vs Hercules" is a fun-loving fight between two big, buff, macho dudes that love to get their way and don't mind flexing their muscles to get it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this is more of a "fight first, talk later" kind of a match up. And that's why I've loved it ever since I was a kid! It will never generate the interest and respect of "Hulk vs Thor", but it forever will be a classic match up that will showcase two of the most powerful beings on Earth slugging it out to see who is the superior. No matter how you look at it, this fight is very intriguing and this write up is a dedication to that. Hey, what's not to love?

Enough with the background, let's get to the combatants...

TALE OF THE TAPE

Name: Hulk

Height: 5’9 ½” (Banner), 7’ (Hulk)

Weight: 128lbs (Banner), 1,040lbs (Hulk)

Real Name: Robert Bruce Banner

Origins: Gamma bomb explosion at Desert Base New Mexico

Home Base: Earth

Favorite Expressions: “Hulk Smash!” “Hulk is the Strongest One There is!” “Nothing Can Stop Hulk!” “Don’t make me angry, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.”

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/incarnations/incarnations.html

Name: Hercules

Height: 6'5"

Weight: 325lbs

Real Name: Heracles

Origins: Thebes, Greece, Zeus (father), Alcemne (mother, deceased)

Home Base: Mount Olympus

Nicknames: The Prince of Power, The Lion of Olympus, The Son of Zeus, Herceler, Harry Cleese, Victor Tegler, Olympus's Greatest Hero, Olympus's Greatest Warrior, The Champion of Olympus

Powers: Superhuman strength, durability, stamina and immortality greater than those of any other Olympian God except for Zeus and possibly Neptune and Pluto (although he is the physically strongest of the Olympian pantheon). He has powerful leg muscles that he can jump great distances (up to 100 feet) and run at great speeds (up to 100 mph). As a true immortal he does not age, is resistant to some forms of magic, can survive in deep space for a brief amount of time and is immune to disease. Although he can be wounded, he cannot die by conventional means and with a hearty constitution, he possesses a rapid healing rate. Only an injury of such magnitude that it incinerated him or dispersed a major portion of his bodily molecules could kill him, but then Zeus or any other Olympian God might still be able to resurrect him. He is highly trained with thousands of years of experience in Olympian arts of war especially in hand-to-hand combat, boxing and a master in all forms of wrestling and grappling. He is also skilled in ancient Greek athletics excelling at the discus and hammer throw. If conquering women is also a superpower then Hercules has got to be one of the most powerful in existence at this (just ask him and he'll gladly tell you)

Weapons: Golden Mace; forged by the god Hephaestus from enchanted adamantine making it virtually unbreakable, Special Bow and Arrows (which only he can use properly) that has a range of one mile. Magical Nemean Lion Skin Armor; grants him protection from all slashing, thrusting and piercing weapons with only limited protection from blunt weapons

Favorite Expressions: Just about anything that has to do with himself.

THE SLUGFESTS

The comics listed in this section is each time the Hulk and Hercules have squared off, had words and fought each other in actual official Marvel continuity. I will also explain each encounter in detail. Unfortunately, all fights and situations are not always so clear cut and I've tried my very best to be fair, objective and unbiased about the outcome of each battle. At the end, I tallied up the totals so you can come to your own conclusions and be the judge to see who holds the overall edge in this incredible match up.

TALES TO ASTONISH #79 (1966)

The first time the two combatants ever meet. While planes are chasing down the "Gravage" Hulk, he rips up some railroad tracks and throws it at them. This will cause a train riding the tracks to stop. The Hulk thinks they have stopped to fight, but the conductors will tell him that no one is here to fight him. Or so they think because as luck would have it, Hercules steps off the train and says that anyone who interferes with his journey must answer to him. When Herc sees the Hulk for the first time he is amazed by the wonders of Earth and then tells the brute to prepare himself for a lesson. The Hulk doesn't care what Herc has to say, he just sees some one big enough for him to smash and that's all Jade Jaws needs to know. A perfect introduction between these two powerhouses and at last the brawl begins! They go back and forth until the Army attacks and the Hulk will soon leap away. Hercules is impressed with the mortal he had just battled. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 1 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 0

THE CHAMPIONS #16 (1977)

The "Savage" Hulk is under the control of Dr. Doom as Doom is opposing Magneto and the Champions team. Magneto will knock the Hulk into Herc and the battle begins! They fight back and forth until Doom's control over the Hulk is broken. The Hulk realizes that he doesn't want what Doom wants and leaps away. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 2 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 0

THE DEFENDERS #63 (1978)

While the "Savage" Hulk is fighting off other heroes, Hercules steps in and thinks it's up to him to put a stop to the brawl going on. The Prince of Power will rip up a tree and hit all the combatants with it separating them! As they all regroup, the fighting stops. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 3 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 0

DEATH OF CAPTAIN MARVEL GRAPHIC NOVEL (1982)

Heroes go to pay their respects to Captain Mar-vell, who is dying of cancer. A splash page shows the "Savage" Hulk amused and intrigued by Tigra and Hercules is not not happy about it. The Demigod is being restrained by Iron Man and the Devil Slayer so a fight won't break out (nobody ever said that Hercules could pick his spots). RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 4 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 0

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #316 (1985)

Hercules attacks the "Mindless" Hulk with fellow Avengers; Iron Man, Wonder Man and Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner. The battle is titanic with a ton of destruction, but the heroes don't make much progress in stopping the crazed behemoth. Soon Doc Samson comes along and convinces them to let him try first. Hercules is fighting the Hulk at the time Samson shows up and decides that because Samson has brains and brawn that he is a more worthy opponent (despite the fact that Samson is fighting three of his teammates and that the Hulk was the one he originally came to stop). What was Herc thinking?? Another of the many questionable actions in the career of Hercules. As the Hulk loses interest in the 4 on 1 melee in front of him, he leaps away. RESULT: DRAW (But I'm tempted to give the Hulk the "win" because of the "thick-headed" move Hercules makes in this fight that made absolutely no sense.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 5 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 0

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #321 (1986)

Hercules will attack the "Mindless" Hulk with 10 other Avengers helping him out. In this intense scrap, the team is buried under a building by the Hulk. While the Hulk now goes off fighting other Avengers, Captain America and the big guns regroup and decide to fight the beast at full-force! RESULT: EDGE HULK (The Hulk got the "edge" by burying Herc and his Avenger teammates, but they were still in the fight and far from defeated.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 6 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 0

Hercules and the rest of the Avengers attack the "Mindless" Hulk again, battling the brute to a standstill. She-Hulk shows up and breaks it up to try to talk the Hulk down. When the Hulk punches her to the ground, they regroup and all decide that this Hulk must die to save the world. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 7 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 0

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #322 (1986)

Hercules makes several attacks on the "Mindless" Hulk with the help of all the Avengers, but nothing could slow the monster down. Soon (due to the fact that the Hulk was currently separated from Bruce Banner) the Hulk begins to weaken and finally falls. Herc wants to land the killing blow but Betty Ross runs up and stops him because if the Hulk dies, so will Bruce Banner! RESULT: WIN HERCULES (This is by no means a definitive "win" for Hercules as he had the help of 11 Avenger teammates. And the Hulk only fell because he was losing his strength and power due to his separation from Bruce Banner.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 8 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 1

THE AVENGERS ANNUAL #17 (1987)

The "Gray" Hulk is persuaded to briefly rejoin the Avengers during the Evolutionary War. As Hercules and the Hulk team up to attack Attuma and his forces, they exchange words on who is the superior. Nothing becomes of it because the Hulk is eventually banished away by the High Evolutionary. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 9 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #404 (1993)

With the "Professor" Hulk under the mind control of Mentallo and the Red Skull, he and Juggernaut team up to fight Hercules and the Avengers. The Hulk and Herc have a short scrap and stop once the Hulk starts to break free from the control and attacks the Juggernaut. In the end, when the Hulk regains total control of his mind, it causes a psychic backlash that will knock everyone out except himself and the Vision. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 10 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #434 (1995)

At the funeral of Nick Fury (obviously his death was a farce), the "Professor" Hulk has a short scrap with Hercules and other Avengers. The fight gets broken up by the President so that everyone can show their proper respect for the dead. Another bad judgment on Hercules (and the Avengers) part for tangling with the Hulk at the wrong time and place. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 11 HULK: 0 - HERCULES: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK - HERCULES: UNLEASHED #1 (1996)

Hercules (without his immortality) shows up to confront the "Bannerless" Hulk to help him find the missing heroes (who are in a universe created by Franklin Richards). The Hulk isn't in the mood to help out and wants to fight, so predictably he attacks. The fight is epic and Herc manages to holds his own with his great fighting skills, but due to being depowered, he cannot take much of the Hulk's onslaught. The brute continues to unmercifully pound and bloody up Herc, who continues to fight on despite his injures. Finally, the Hulk threatens to end Herc's life but Zeus will step in save his son from the final blow. Later, Zeus will offer to restore Herc's immortality and power back to normal but his stubborn son will refuse. RESULT: WIN HULK (Although the Hulk pounded on Herc within an inch of his life, the Son of Zeus was without his immortality and not fighting at full-strength. I should also point out that the Hulk was separated from Bruce Banner at this time and his power levels were also very erratic.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 12 HULK: 1 - HERCULES: 1

HEROES FOR HIRE #1 (1997)

Hercules watches a television screen and sees the "Bannerless" Hulk on a rampage close to where he is at. Herc shows great courage and will take off to go after the behemoth (despite not having his immortality and narrowly surviving his last encounter with the Hulk). But when Herc shows up, Iron Fist frees the Hulk from a mind-control device and they all team up to defeat the U-Foes. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 13 HULK: 1 - HERCULES: 1

HEROES REBORN: THE RETURN #2 (1997)

You have to give Hercules props because despite still not having his immortality and almost dying at the hands of the "Bannerless" Hulk in a previous encounter, this is the third time he comes face to face with the brute at a great disadvantage but without any fear. This time Hercules and the Thunderbolts confront the Hulk in a stand off. But as a nexus storm becomes more intense, they all get separated by a flood. Soon the Hulk and Spider-man get teleported away. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 14 HULK: 1 - HERCULES: 1

GIANT-SIZE HULK #1 (2006)

This is an untold tale of the past that will eventually lead into the World War Hulk story line. Hercules is with the Champions team including; Black Widow, Angel, Iceman and Ghost Rider.

The "Savage" Hulk is rampaging through a city with an unidentified woman in a car he is carrying. Assuming the worst, Hercules and the Champions attack. The Hulk is able to take each of the Champions attacks (and call Hercules "Skirt Man" which embarrasses him) before putting the car down and smashing the ground a few times stunning the team. Eventually, the woman is delivered to the hospital, at which point it is revealed that she is Jennifer Walters in her pre-She Hulk days, and that her appendix was about to rupture. The Hulk, in this case, was a good guy, racing her to the hospital before he was interrupted by the heroes looking for a fight. Hercules in particular notes with shame that he attacked the Hulk without giving him a chance to explain…and notes that he hopes to do the Hulk right in the future, providing us with our much-promised hint as to how things might shake out in World War Hulk. RESULT: EDGE HULK (Although the Hulk stunned Hercules and the rest of the Champions team before he leaps away, they were not truly defeated so I couldn't give the Hulk a definitive "win". I should also note that the Hulk won a moral victory in this by being more concerned about saving his cousin than wanting to fight.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 15 HULK: 1 - HERCULES: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #107 / WORLD WAR HULK #2 (2007)

I should point out that this fight is shown in its entirety in The Incredible Hulk #107 and only in a few panels in World War Hulk #2.

Hercules and the Champions find the "World War" Hulk and want to help him in his cause. Amadeus Cho will call out to the brute, but when the Hulk sees him with Hercules and the others, he attacks! Hercules defends Cho and gets pounded by the behemoth as Namora and Angel come in and try to help Herc out but are easily tossed aside. Herc then attacks and tells the Hulk to stop fighting because they want to help him. But the Hulk, filled with anger, will continue to unmercifully pound Herc into a bloody mess. Finally the Hulk stops and sees a bunch of people around him that believe in his cause and want to stand by him. RESULT: WIN HULK (This fight is a little controversial, as one might argue that Herc was not truly fighting back in the end to show the Hulk the error of his ways. But it's hard to judge because the Hulk was really putting a hurting on The Lion of Olympus even before he supposedly stopped fighting back. As I see it, the Hulk truly pummeled Herc in this one and showcased his true power over the Son of Zeus. And no matter how much Hercules fanboys want to argue about this fight, Herc looked bad and there is no denying that.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 16 HULK: 2 - HERCULES: 1

HULK VS HERCULES: WHEN TITANS COLLIDE #1 (2008)

Hercules tells Amadeus Cho about a meeting he had with the "Mindless" Hulk when the brute was stranded at the Crossroads of Eternity years ago. As Gaea takes pity on the Hulk, he finds himself on Olympus and soon befriends two giants that have been oppressed by the Olympian gods. Ares will eventually show up and attack, but after the Hulk makes short work of The God of War, the giants see the Hulk's true potential and manipulate him into attacking the other Olympus gods (who they have a grudge with). Hercules is summoned and confronts the mute behemoth. They go back and forth until Ares returns to kill the Hulk (who at that moment is momentarily blinded), but is punched out by Hercules. The Son of Zeus will now stop fighting the Hulk and call their contest a draw while offering his friendship. Soon Cronus breaks free from his prison and with his legions attack the Olympians. The two giants that the Hulk befriended earlier get killed off by Hercules in the melee and when the Hulk sees this he is shocked and unable to understand why. As Herc offers the brute his hand in friendship, the Hulk turns away and enters the Crossroads again. RESULT: DRAW

FINAL TALLY: MATCH UPS: 17 HULK: 2 - HERCULES: 1

NON-CONTINUITY BATTLES

The Hulk and Hercules have fought a few times in non-cannon stories. I've noticed throughout the years that both Hulk and Hercules fans often make arguments showing these comics to make claims to their debates. But truth be told, despite some interesting stories, these issues don't count. I see them as writers interpretations of “Hulk vs Hercules” battles without continuity restraints so they always have fun twists of “What could have been.” Listed here are the best of the best of the Hulk and Hercules battles that occurred outside of actual Marvel continuity.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #200 (1976)

The "Savage" Hulk (with a special helmet on that gives Bruce Banner's brain control of the Hulk) battles illusions of his greatest foes inside the infected mind of Glenn Talbot. There, an illusion of Hercules is among the many foes that attack and get defeated by the raging Hulk (who has long destroyed the helmet) which eventually frees Talbot from the control.

THE DEFENDERS #62 (1978)

While the "Savage" Hulk doesn't even fight Hercules in this issue, I listed it because when I was a kid, this was the first time I ever saw or even thought about "Hulk vs Hercules." My older brother had this comic in his collection and when he wasn't home I decided to look through them. When I came to this issue, I was simply in awe! My 6 year old mind went nuts with this match up! Who is the stronger? Who would win this fight? I couldn't wait to see them slug it out as I opened the comic. Sadly, when I looked through the issue, there was no fight to be seen anywhere. It was all cover propaganda and my brother didn't have the next issue so I never knew what happened until years later (they still didn't really fight as shown above). Still, this comic and slugfest represents a link to my childhood and so I had to honor it in this write up.

THE AVENGERS #267 (1986)

Kang has almost eliminated all the time divergent duplicates created each time he jumped through time. The Wasp, Black Knight and Hercules are transported to Limbo by Kang where he hopes they will help him destroy the final duplicate. While in Limbo they face images of the Avengers of the past and when Herc sees the "Gravage" Hulk, he attacks and drops the brute with a massive punch.

HULK / POWER PACK #4 (2007)

The "Savage" Hulk and Power Pack have teamed-up to take down some of the Hulk's greatest foes, but now they face their greatest opponents yet -- the mightiest heroes in the Marvel Universe! The Hulk begins to slug it out with everybody including Hercules in a battle royal! The only ones who can hope to stop the destruction are Marvel's youngest heroes, Power Pack! Soon Energizer is dropped on the Hulk by Lightspeed and she absorbs his gamma-rays turning the Hulk back into Bruce Banner which ends the fight. But now she turns into the Hulk and wants to smash Banner! Energizer will then shoot a blast to the sky releasing the gamma energy within her and turns back to normal.

MARVEL ADVENTURES: THE AVENGERS #18 (2008)

After centuries of imprisonment in solid rock by Pluto, Hercules breaks out into the world and is confronted by the Avengers. As the "Savage" Hulk and Iron Man battle the giant three-headed dog, Cerebus, the Avengers fight and then make friends with the Son of Zeus. Soon the Hulk will fall on top of Herc and they start to brawl it out (which Herc loves). They go back and forth until they all team up to defeat Cerebus with teamwork. Herc enjoys the company of all the heroes but decides to return to Hades (by digging through a volcano) to find and get his revenge on Pluto for imprisoning him.

NEW AVENGERS: ARMY OF ONE (2009)

With the "Savage" Hulk rampaging across the American Southwest, it will take the combined might of just about every Marvel hero including Hercules and the U.S. Military to stop him. While the battle is intense with all the heroes piling up on the Hulk, Hercules and Thor manage to get in some big power shots before a team of Military sharpshooters finally take the Hulk out with admantium tipped darts that make him change back into Bruce Banner and sedate him.

MEDIA

Listed in this section is every time the Hulk squared off against Hercules in a movie, cartoon, video game, etc. Now this category might not be in actual comic continuity but it plays a very important role in how the mainstream audience views each character and where they stand when facing off with one another.

MARVEL ULTIMATE ALLIANCE 2 VIDEO GAME (2009)

This action role-playing game was a sequel to the 2006 Marvel Ultimate Alliance Video Game. It features elements of the Secret War and Civil War story arcs.

The Hulk is a playable character that needs to be unlocked and Hercules is a boss character that you fight when you sign with the Pro-Registration heroes (both were not included in the previous game as the Hulk eventually become a downloadable playable character). So under the correct circumstances you can have the Hulk and his team fight it out with Hercules in a battle of video game fun!

MARVEL SUPERHERO SQUAD: THE INFINITY GAUNTLET VIDEO GAME (2010)

There are three modes of play in the game: the first is "Story Mode", which allows up to two players to complete the game story with a limited selection of heroes available; the second mode is "Challenge Mode", which allows for up to four players to play together with an increased choice of thirty different superheroes and supervillains to either play it out or fight it out in an array of mini games; the final mode of play is "Freeplay Mode", which allows the player to go back to any level and replay it as any playable character. You can also have them fighting if you download the "Thanos Thowdown" option where you get to not only use Thanos as a playable character but you get two new styles of play for the "Challenge Mode" option. With "Mayhem Marathon" you can play with up to four players and keep battling swarms of villains to see who can get the highest score. And in "Combat Crater" you can fight up to four players in a fighting free-for-all while collecting gems and bonuses that pop up and giving characters special powers. While the Hulk is a playable character in this game and Hercules is not (he is a boss character), the Hulk will slug it out with the Olympian through out the game and in different game modes. "Hulk vs Hercules" has never looked cuter!!

SUPERHERO SQUAD CARTOON (SEASON: 2 EPISODE 37 SO PRETTY WHEN THEY EXPLODE! 2011)

While not a Hulk vs Thor vs Hercules vs She-Hulk slugfest in a cartoon. I have to mention this episode because they all try to prove to the other who is truly the superior in strength, especially Hulk, Thor and Hercules (with their ego's in high gear). It is a fun episode that plays out the controversy on who is the strongest hero in the Super Squad universe!

MARVEL SUPERHERO SQUAD ONLINE VIDEO GAME (2011)

This online PC game has a ton of features where Hulk, Hercules and all the other Marvel heroes can be used to play. Have level games and battle minions until you meet up with the villain bosses, team up with other players online, train your heroes and interact with the entire Marvel Universe. Also there is a fun option for fighting each other in a card game style format. This game is in the style of many of the popular card games for kids, where you try to trump the card your opponent plays, or stop them from being able to put one down at all. You’ll begin by building your deck, choosing cards with a high damage potential, or cards that might help you block your opponent’s attack. Your chosen hero will face off in an arena with one opponent. Each turn you have the chance to attack, block an attack, or pass if you have nothing to play. Make your opponent lose all of the cards in his hand to win the game. With each card you play, the character on the card will enter the battle arena and perform an action. It’s really fun to see your favorite characters attacking, blocking, or cheering their victories. When you win a game, you’ll be rewarded with a new card for your deck. Have Hulk and Hercules fight in a battle royal of the ages or have them fight others. Either way it's some super fun to play!

THE END??

Now to wrap up this titanic tussle! Even though the Hulk has a slight edge over Hercules in 17 overall match ups 2 to 1, those wins and loses are without some controversies. But if you look at all the fights honestly, you have to to give the Hulk the edge because it's just Herc's fight to lose. Yes, Herc is the much better fighter and starts off with a higher base strength than the Hulk, but as the fight progresses Herc will eventually wear down and fall. And even though Herc has his godly stamina and healing rate, which will keep him in this slugfest for days (not to mention his unyielding warriors-heart and spirit), it will eventually not be enough. The fact is, despite how powerful Herc is, the Hulk is just more so. And whether some fans think this should not be the case because Herc is an Olympian God and the Hulk is a mortal, it doesn't matter because these are the facts. Hercules has a cap on his power levels while the Hulk does not and that is the edge. The brute will continue to get stronger, more durable and much more relentless so Herc is eventually bound to drop. The proof lies within all the battles where Herc has a ton of back up and he still can't put the Hulk away. Also the fight in The Incredible Hulk #107 (despite what you think of the fight itself) you can clearly see the difference in each combatants power levels. Herc's major blows cause no physical damage while the Hulk's make Herc a bloody mess. In the end, there is no doubt in my mind that if the Hulk is angry, he will be the last man standing on the battlefield.

Only a handful of characters symbolize strength. Throughout history, no one is more famous for strength than Hercules. His feats of strength, the 12 labors of Hercules, are passed down from generations to generations. In the Marvel Universe, however, Hercules has to contend with other powerful beings to earn the title of "The Strongest". And in this match up, Herc doesn't always win. But the Lion of Olympus should be given his proper respect that he sometimes lacks. He is Thor's equal when it come to physical combat and is without a doubt capable of defeating anyone on Earth including every super-heavyweight in the Marvel Universe. But if Herc decides to slug it out with the Hulk toe-to-toe or hand-to-hand, he will lose plain and simple. And Hercules will do this because that's just the way he is, very confident, very proud and all ego.

This is also the same flaw Herc's immortal buddy Thor seems to suffer from when he fights the Hulk. Thor has so many other powers at his disposal (especially with Mjolnir) but he rarely ever uses them because of his proud, self-righteous ego. He decides to slug it out with the Hulk and the consequences don't fall in the Thunder God's favor. Both Hercules and Thor always want to beat the Hulk at his game and this isn't the smartest move by either of them. It must be the fact that these immortal warriors have been worshiped and idolized by "mere mortals" for thousands of years and they can't admit or understand why one of those mortals is actually stronger than them and capable of matching them in physical combat. Well, it would bother me...

Either way, when Hercules (or Thor) slugs it out with the Hulk, it's always fun to see and of course, legendary!

Agree? Disagree? Let's hear it fanboys!!

Check out other "DEFINITIVE WRITE UPS" here:

Superman vs Captain Marvel

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/05/superman-vs-captain-marvel.html

Thor vs Ulik

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/07/thor-vs-ulik.html

Hulk vs Thor

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/09/hulk-vs-thor.html

Hulk vs Juggernaut

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011_12_01_archive.html

Hulk vs Sub-Mariner
http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/02/hulk-vs-sub-mariner.html

John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central
John Cimino is a Silver and Bronze Age Marvel comic, cartoon and memorabilia expert and has been writing and starring in the "Hero Envy" webisode series. He is also the host of the Reckless Sidekick "Swass-Cast" and has contributed to the "Hero Envy" comic book. He also thinks he's really Captain Marvel, people just don't have the heart to tell him he's just an obsessed fanboy that borders on the insane.

THE AVENGERS (vol.1) #164, 165, 166 (1977)

2012-01-01T05:39:00.012-05:00

OUT OF THE BACK ISSUE BIN

Views and Reviews of Comic Books from the Past

John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino

THE AVENGERS (vol.1) #164, 165, 166 (1977)

Written by: Jim Shooter

Drawn by: John Byrne

Inked by: Pablos Marcos

When Jim Shooter was Editor-In-Chief of Marvel Comics from 1978 until 1987, it was a controversial love/hate relationship between him, his bosses, the creators under him and fans. But regardless of his business sense and authority issues, I have always thought of Jim as an underrated and under appreciated writer. The guy has got to be given some major props for his talents and what he brought to the comic book world. At the tender age of 14 he started selling stories to DC Comics writing for both, Action Comics and Adventure Comics. He created the highly popular Superman villain, the Parasite, many characters for the Legion of Super-Heroes and not to mention, creating the legendary rivalry between Superman and The Flash to see who's really the fastest man alive.

John Byrne has been past his prime since the 1990's, but back in 1977 he was becoming the "hot" new artist on the horizon that would eventually rule the 80's. During that time Byrne redefined The X-Men, The Fantastic Four and Superman to such a degree that they have become the "standard" to many creators in the field. His work was simply amazing at this time and perfect for the Avengers because it was so large in scope and you got to see his interpretations on many heroes and villains.

Pablo Marcos was another underrated comic artist and commercial illustrator who had his best run on comic books during the 70's. He has worked on such notable characters as Batman, Conan the Barbarian, and (his most accomplished work) The Zombie from Marvel's horror magazine called Tales of the Zombie (1973-1975). He may never have gotten the "buzz" as inker Terry Austin did over John Byrne's pencils in The X-men, but during their run in The Avengers, he complimented Bryne's style very well.

Okay, enough with the creators, let's get to the issues...

THE AVENGERS #164

"To Fall By Treachery!"

This issue basically starts up the 3-part saga where Count Nefaria begins to manipulate the Living Laser, Whirlwind and Power Man (a villain that was created in 1965, who later became part of the Thunderbolts and not the African-American character, Luke Cage) into attacking the Avengers. This team consists of Beast, Wonder-Man, Scarlet Witch, Yellow Jacket, Black Panther and my hero, Captain America! The battle is pretty good, but Wonder-Man just happens to always doubt himself because he is scared that he will die again, so he usually stands around and takes a beating (just stop the whining and fight for cryin' out loud Simon!!). But Nefaria with the help of Professor Sturdy and his laboratory has plans to become a super-immortal and begins to slowly siphon the villains energy and powers. They get absorbed and increase a hundred-fold into Neferia's body who basically becomes a Superman with a slick goatee and mo-statch (can anyone out there say "Super" Clark Gable!!!). Oh boy, oh boy, when Nefaria all decked out with his new super-trunks and flashy cape confronts the Avengers, they all know they're going to be in for a long night.

THE AVENGERS #165

"Hammer of Vengeance!"

The action starts right away, as Count Nefaria kicks the crap out of our heroes (and I mean literally) and trashes Avengers mansion. The charming bastard now has too much going for him; almost-limitless physical strength, hypersonic speed, heat vision, invulnerability, leaping with Hulk-level ability (now that's far baby) and not to mention, dashing good looks. He will go off to wreck a bank and grab a hot-chick that can admire his new found glory. Soon Nefaria is met up by the Whizzer, who is easily defeated. But the aged speedster makes Nefaria realize that he's not immortal even with all the powers he absorbed, this makes the Count go nuts because he wanted to rule the world forever (get in line buddy).

Round 2 with the Avengers starts as Iron Man shows up to help out his teammates. They once again, prove to be no match for Nefaria even though Iron Man provided an opening by hurting him just a little, which Wonder-Man blows because he is still shaking in his boots, so the opportunity is lost (jackass). The Avengers are completely humbled as the Count drops a forty-story building on them. Nefaria gloats more about his new found power and wants to prove to the world that he can even defeat its champion...The Mighty Thor! And then suddenly, lightning crashes all around Nefaria as he hears, "Thou hast dared much, villain--and, verily, thine hour of judgement hath come!" This brings tears to my eyes because this is what fanboys like me want to see, the battle of the real heavyweight championship between the two Supermen! Nefaria then screams..."THOR!" as the Thunder God hurls Mjolnir at him. What a cliff-hanger!! To me, this is how you write a true superhero comic!! It's a shame that I was too young to buy comics off the rack because I can bet fanboys and readers from all over couldn't wait to see the next exciting issue!!!

THE AVENGERS #166

"Day of the Godslayer!"

The Grand Final!! Thor lashes out at Nefaria, hurts him, but even though Nefaria is intimidated and amazed by Thor's great strength and powers, he survived. Now Nefaria strikes back with new found confidence! Nefaria will then throw a sky-scraper on top of the Thunder God, but still Thor, who is impressed by Nefaria's raw strength fight's on (this "Warrior-Born" God will never quit). A great moment in comics happens next as Thor tries to strike with Mjolnir, but Nefaria stops the hammer with one hand...YYOOOOWWWZZAAHH!!! This is a first in Marvel history as Thor yells, "ODD'S BLOOD!" Even Nefaria couldn't believe how strong he had become and while Thor was shocked and off-balance, he punches the God to the pavement! Soon from the help of Hank Pym, the Vision awakens and enters the frey. The android tries to disrupt Nefaria's substance by putting his hand into the villain's body, but Nefaria is too super-charged with energy for this maneuver to work so Vision is knocked back even while he was in ethereal form and rendered useless. Thor now recovers and locks up once again with the Count. They go back and fourth until Professor Sturdy comes out of the shadows and stops the them. Sturdy tells Nefaria that he is aging at an incredible rate and will soon die and only he has the ability to control his aging process. But as luck would have it, right at that moment Sturdy has a heart attack and falls. Nefaria stands in disbelief as Thor tells him to surrender as the Avengers will help him. But Nefaria starts to go crazy as he throws a surprise back-hand that floors the Thunder God and leaps off to destroy everything in his path. The Avengers regroup as an injured Captain America gives Wonder-Man his shield to use in the fight before he falls unconscious (oh, now he'll fight...Simon's a jerk). Now Wonder-Man (armed with Cap's shield), Scarlet Witch, Thor and Iron Man use teamwork to eventually hurt Nefaria and the Vision drops from the sky (at maximum mass and density) finally knocking him out.

Everyone recovers, dusts off, looks at the billions of dollars in property damage and Iron Man finds the time to yell at Thor for showing up whenever he pleases (give the God a break, if he didn't show up you'd all be dead). But Shell-Head proves to be a hypocrite as Cap points out he has been doing the same thing and he's even the teams current leader (maybe Tony's back on the booze??). And to make matters worst, Hank Pym interjects that before Professor Sturdy died he told him that the aging Nefaria was experiencing was only a temporary side effect and the super-energy in his cells would extend his lifespan indefinitely. So in effect the guy was immortal!! Could things get any worst? Ahhh, such is the life of a Marvel Superhero.

HERO ENVY REPORT CARD

Story: 4

Art: 4

Action: 5

Flow: 5

Reread Factor: 5

Overall Grade: 5

(grading numbers 1 thru 5, with 5 being the highest)

This 3-part saga is some great stuff during a time when comics were just so much fun to read! This story is essentially, in my humble opinion, how a "Superhero Comic" should read and feel. The tone of the story is perfect with a ton of twists, turns, drama and action with cliffhangers galore all the way through it. Any kid or an adult can pick these issues up, even today and experience a fresh fun tale with excitement and enthusiasm even without knowing anything about the characters or plot lines. And that is something many of today's comics lack. To find them, you'll have to check the back issue bins at your local comic shop because these three issues have yet to be reprinted in any format (such a shame). I sometimes wonder if Marvel still carries a few grudges against Jim Shooter so they might never reprint them. It's okay though, because each issue can run you anywhere between just 5 and 10 dollars (depending on condition). So it's well worth the money! And being an old comic, each issue has the smell, texture and color that we old-school comic fans consider priceless!

If not, then...ODD'S BLOOD!!!

Agree, disagree? Let's hear it fanboys!

John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central
John Cimino is a Silver and Bronze Age Marvel comic, cartoon and memorabilia expert and has been writing and starring in the "Hero Envy" webisode series. He is also the host of the Reckless Sidekick "Swass-Cast" and has contributed to the "Hero Envy" comic book. He also thinks he's really Captain Marvel, people just don't have the heart to tell him he's just an obsessed fanboy that borders on the insane.

HULK VS JUGGERNAUT

2011-12-04T20:06:00.064-05:00

HULK VS JUGGERNAUT

The Definitive Write Up on the Biggest of the Big and the Baddest of the Bad

John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino

In the annals of comic history, very few names can inspire intimidation and fear like The Incredible Hulk and The Unstoppable Juggernaut. That is because they are both at the top of the food-chain when it comes to total mass-monsters with tremendous raw physical strength and pure high-end durability. Their levels of physical prowess is so far off the charts that they have become the standard in the comics world. Despite what even obsessive fanboys think of them personally, these two brutes will always be in their conversations when talking about the subjects of strength and durability. That is because they are the hypothetical "irresistible force" and the equally theoretical "immovable object". And regardless of the occasional low-end showings to fit a story or situation (something writers do to all characters), these two forces of nature are widely considered the "be all, end all" prime examples of the comic terms "brick" or "team-buster." Because their respect is legendary and we read it all the time in comic after comic, "My god, he hits almost as hard a the Hulk!!" or "I can't believe anyone could do that to the Juggernaut!" Yup, when either one of them shows up you can bet the Avengers will be calling in their most powerful members because very few characters have ever garnered as much awe and respect as the Hulk and the Juggernaut.

Despite the crazy intrigue of this match up today, it really didn't take form until the mid 1990's. That was almost twenty years after the first and only time they clashed in The Incredible Hulk #172 (Feb. 1974). Even the letters page in The Incredible Hulk #176 (June 1974) when discussing the issue surprisingly didn't really mention anything about their immortal clash. And even the writer of this historic issue, Tony Isabella said this to me about it; "I'm amazed that this is such a big deal. For me, it was one of several "bail out the schedule" jobs I did for Marvel and I didn't always take credit for them. I scripted it in two days over the weekend. I might not even have seen it again until it was published as I didn't always get a chance to proof read my own work." I always believed it was because "Hulk vs Thing", "Hulk vs Wolverine" and "Hulk vs Thor" were so classic, heralded and in demand (plus the Juggernaut was more of an X-Men villain) that comic fans and writers just pushed this match up into the background and went onto the more popular ones. Yes, it's hard to imagine such a cataclysmic rivalry would only be mentioned or acknowledged in just eight issues from 1974 to 1993 until they fought again:

* The Incredible Hulk #200 (1976)
* The Incredible Hulk Annual #7 (1978)
* The Amazing Spider-man #229 (1982)
* The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #5 (1983)
* The Incredible Hulk #314 (1985)
* The Uncanny X-Men #194 (1985)
* The Mighty Thor #412 (1989)
* The Incredible Hulk Annual #16 (1990)

(I'll also have to give a shout out to the "Spider-man and his Amazing Friends" cartoon episode "A Firestar is Born" (1982) where the X-Men guest star and they all fight the Juggernaut. What makes this interesting in the comparison between the two brutes is that the Juggernaut although voiced by William Marshall for dialogue, had the same stock grunts as the Hulk did in his Animated Series at this time voiced by Bob Holt)

Juggernaut started reaching all new levels of popularity being associated with Wolverine and the X-Men in the 1990's. He now begins to feature more prominently in Marvel titles, even starring in a one-shot as well as cartoons, toys, posters, video games, etc. because lets face it, Juggernaut was cool as hell! He was a big and nasty individual who get's what he wants, when he wants. He is one of the roughest and toughest men on the planet, who knows it and enjoys it. How could you not love the guy? The Hulk was always the legendary "most powerful being walking the face of the earth" tormented by the world around him. But that Hulk was long gone and a new Hulk of the 90's was walking around (thanks to writer Peter David) who comic fans would come to call the "Professor" Hulk. This Hulk incarnation was much more handsome, intellectual and wise-cracking than ever before (plus he had a habit for always wearing boots and a stupid belt...UGH!!) but he had lost his savage-edge. He was too analytic to get madder and stronger and somehow he would bleed all the time until his healing factor power would kick in and put him back together again...UGH!! He also had a bunch of friends, was reluctant to fight, always thinking things through and so emotional that he cried like a baby all the time...UGH! To tell you the truth, I HATED this Hulk and all the changes Peter David made to the Hulk's mythos that unfortunately happen to stick and ruin the character forever. This was a new Hulk that Marvel advertised to the masses and this Hulk was not the one I wanted to remember.

But still the curiosity factor was always there. Both brutes at their best wrecked other characters and caused so much destruction that they were very comparable. You couldn't help but ask; Who was truly physically superior Hulk or Juggernaut? Was the Hulk really the strongest one there is when compared to the Juggernaut? Was Juggernaut really unstoppable when compared to the Hulk? It was all so intriguing to comic fans.

A letter from The Incredible Hulk #183 (1975). As you can see, just about no one is going to match the "Savage" Hulk of this time period in pure physical strength...not even the Juggernaut.

A letter from The Incredible Hulk #424 (1994). With Juggernaut riding high on the wildly popular X-Men coattails during the 90's and with Peter David's Hulk run in full effect starring the "Professor" Hulk, fans had a real argument on who was the stronger of the two. As you can see some of Marvel editorial claim it's the Juggernaut that has superior strength and many people agreed with them.

But as you can see here in the same issue of The Incredible Hulk #424 (1994), they change their minds and call the Juggernaut one of the strongest beings on Earth and urge on the debate of his strength compared to the Hulk's. This clearly shows that even the editorial department at Marvel had no idea who was the stronger character.

But it was the coming of The Marvel Superheroes arcade game by Capcom in 1995 that would take the mythos of "Hulk vs Juggernaut" and change it to make it a public mainstay. After this game hit the world, it brought along a bunch of new controversies and debates to this match up. Now it was more than who could beat who, it was also who is bigger than who?

For many years they have been very comparable in size and mass and always drawn that way; the Hulk was listed at 7 feet tall and weighing 1,040 pounds and Juggernaut was 6 feet 10 inches and weighing 900 pounds. As this new "Professor" Hulk incarnation, the Hulk was even more bigger at 7 feet 5 inches and weighing 1,150 pounds. And when this "Professor" Hulk tangled with the Juggernaut in some recent issues, The Incredible Hulk #402-404 (1992/1993), artist Gary Frank clearly drew the Hulk the bigger of the two. But the Capcom designers took it upon themselves and decided to make the Juggernaut much more massive and devastating in this video game than the "Professor" Hulk was (and much more fun to play I might add). But what was also strange is that the Juggernaut could "power up" and increase his strength and durability even higher while the Hulk could not. Although the Hulk could do a lot of damage with his moves in his own right, one-on-one the Hulk got his gamma-butt kicked just about every time by the Juggernaut.

Now why does this game have anything to do with the real "Hulk vs Juggernaut" mythos in the comics? Because this game became incredibly popular on a world-wide scale. It changed the perception on how people looked at the Hulk and Juggernaut not only in strength and power but also in size and mass (plus Marvel artist were occasionally drawing Juggernaut looking well over 10 feet tall in some comics. And in the Capcom X-Men: Children of the Atom (1994) fighting game where Juggernaut was first introduced in this video game series, he was already developed to be looking incredibly huge and dwarfing all the other characters). And since the majority of the mainstream audience would rather play video games than read comics or any Marvel Handbook for that matter, this video game would influence and educate them. And it did! Now the response to who was truly the biggest and baddest heavyweight in the Marvel Universe was open for debate.

The Marvel Superheroes Arcade Game by Capcom from 1995. The game that truly changed the appearance of the Hulk and Juggernaut forever to the public.

Capcom made the Juggernaut look like a huge massive tank! In this screen shot you can see the difference in the sheer size and mass the Juggernaut has over the Hulk. It sure wasn't like this in the comics, but the Capcom designers and mainstream audience could care less about that.

Here is a screen shot of the Juggernaut "Powering Up!" and is ready to pound on the puny Hulk with his increased strength and durability. This game showcased the Hulk with no anger increasing powers and to tell you the truth, since this is the silly "Professor" Hulk sporting that embarrassing belt buckle, I don't blame them.

Capcom spawned more sequels to their Marvel vs Capcom video game series (up until Marvel vs Cacom 2: New Age of Heroes in 2000) and they did make the Hulk more powerful with each new release eventually matching the Juggernaut, but he always stayed the same size. Plus the damage was already done. All the influence that happened from this video game and the Juggernaut's rise to fame in the 90's was what changed perception of the "Hulk vs Juggernaut" rivalry forever. To be honest, I have to say more people who never picked up a comic were leaning towards Juggernaut as being the stronger and more powerful of the two and I couldn't blame them. As for the hardcore comic collector, no one really knew who was bigger or stronger and fanboys from both sides made their claims of each character's superiority over the other. But there could be no doubt to the educated reader, these two brutes were evenly matched and peers until the end.

As we enter into the mid 2000's, Wolverine and the X-Men were no longer the most popular on the block with Spider-man taking back the mantel as the icon and symbol of the Marvel Universe (as it should be). And even the Marvel vs Capcom series ended and dwindled away. The only public reminder of this rivalry was at the Hulk Roller Coaster Ride at the Islands of Adventure in Orlando, Florida. While you waited in line, the screens above would show a short animated feature of the Hulk fighting the Rhino. But before the Hulk and the Rhino clash you got to see a few of the Hulk's rouge gallery of villains and Juggernaut makes an appearance.

A view of walking through the line to the Hulk Roller Coaster in Orlando Florida. You can see all the screens on the wall that show an animated Hulk short that features a glimpse of Juggernaut. For a while, this was the only reminder to the masses of Hulk and Juggernaut as adversaries.

Shortly after this, Juggernaut wasn't even a villain anymore in the comics. During his streak to fame, Juggernaut became such a likable character that creators had to make him a good guy. Courtesy of a ruse engineered by Juggernaut's friend Black Tom Cassidy to destroy the X-Men, Juggernaut allies himself with the team and then eventually official joins them. The Juggernaut would reform and join other teams from time to time. Now Juggernauts origin grows deeper as stories reveal that Marko is only the most recent of a series of incarnations of Cyttorak's avatar, with each battling a challenger to the death for the right to retain the entity's power. And to be granted the full-power of the gem of Cyttorak, Marko must do his bidding as the Juggernaut. This seemed to explain the height and weight difference that Juggernaut now has because when he doesn't have full-power he is smaller (at his old listed statistics) and when he is at full-power he is now officially listed at being 9 feet 5 inches and weighing 1,900 pounds. So I'm guessing that Juggernaut is now considered bigger than the Hulk...right?

Well, maybe not because when they fought in their most recent showings and Juggernaut was at full-power, they looked about the same size to me (and it's even rumored that the "World War" Hulk incarnation is listed at 8 feet 8 inches and weighing 2,400 pounds, so take this as you may). I'm sure artists have their own interpretations of each the Hulk's and Juggernaut's muscle mass and could care less what any Marvel Handbook has to say. So I guess we'll never know.

Today, Hulk and Juggernaut don't seem to have as much of a grudge as they did back in their heyday. With Juggernaut liking his new life as a good guy despite his smaller size and lesser power there's almost no point for them to fight (it would just be a lopsided win for the Hulk and no fanboy wants to see that). Seeing the Juggernaut walking around destroying things and doing petty crimes at full-power is going to be a rare occurrence (such a shame). It would be fun, as the current Hulk looks stronger than ever and doing feats of strength that even a "Silver Age" Superman would be impressed with.

But tomorrow is another day and with another day comes another comic and the constant evolving of these characters. And fanboys know with another comic comes eventually another "Hulk vs Juggernaut" slugfest that will inspire many more questions, controversies, debates and of course, capture our imaginations. Isn't that why we love these rivalries and funnybooks anyways?

Enough background, let's see the combatants...

TALE OF THE TAPE

Name: Hulk

Height: 5’9 ½” (Banner), 7’ (Hulk)

Weight: 128lbs (Banner), 1,040lbs (Hulk)

Real Name: Robert Bruce Banner

Origins: Gamma bomb explosion at Desert Base New Mexico

Home Base: Earth

Favorite Expressions: “Hulk Smash!” “Hulk is the Strongest One There is!” “Nothing Can Stop Hulk!” “Don’t make me angry, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.”

Incarnations: I listed the “Savage” Hulk’s stats up above because it is generally considered that this Hulk persona is the most popular and most powerful of all the incarnations. But his height, weight and powers can change from time to time depending on his current incarnation. Within each “Hulk vs Juggernaut” comic description listed below, I included which incarnation of the Hulk was present for that fight. To understand this and to see some of the other strengths and weakness each incarnation has click on this link below.

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/incarnations/incarnations.html

Name: Juggernaut

Height: 6'10" to 9'5"

Weight: 900lbs to 1,900lbs

Real Name: Cain Marko

Origins: Temple of Cyttorak, Korea

Home Base: Earth

Nicknames: Avatar of Cyttorak, Examplar of Physical Power, Juggie, Jug-Head, The Unstoppable One, Captain Universe, Kuurth: Breaker of Stone

Powers: The Cyttorak Gem empowers Cain Marko with magical energies and transformed him into an immortal avatar. As Juggernaut he possesses extreme superhuman strength and durability, he is also amplified by a mystical force field that grants him near invulnerability (even with the force field removed Juggernaut's natural durability proved to be sufficient enough to exchange blows with Thor), when in motion and moving forward he is considered physically unstoppable, he does not tire and is able to survive without food, water or oxygen indefinitely and is immune to all poisons, toxins and diseases.

Weaknesses: Cain must constantly do the will of Cyttorak, in which he must cause destruction and become essentially a villain to the world to utilize the full-power of the gem. When he does not meet this criteria his size and powers sufficiently decrease. Despite Juggernaut's full-power invulnerability, he is vulnerable to mental attacks, a weakness that has been exploited via the removal of his helmet. He has circumvented this weakness by on occasion wearing a metal skullcap inside his main helmet. If he loses his helmet he can recreate it by touching certain materials (as long as he possesses full-power of the gem). He has also been known to be vulnerable to certain magical items. It should be noted, that it is also possible for an opponent with a sufficient amount of strength on their own to turn his irresistibly against him by redirecting his motion so he gets stranded in a position in which he has no purchase.

Favorite Expressions: "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut!", "I'm Unstoppable!", "I'm the Juggernaut Bitch!"

THE SLUGFESTS

The comics listed in this section is each time the Hulk and Juggernaut have squared off and fought each other in actual official Marvel continuity. I will also explain each encounter in detail. Unfortunately, all fights are not always so clear cut and I've tried my very best to be fair, objective and unbiased about the outcome of each battle. At the end, I tallied up the totals so you can come to your own conclusions and be the judge to see who holds the overall edge in this incredible match up. I also spoke with a few creators to shed some light on the more controversial issues and hopefully it will clear up some of the arguments that they spark off.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #172 (1974)

This legendary first fight between the two behemoths has been debated on in the past by fanboys. The question that always seems to come up is if the Hulk increased his strength high enough to overpower Juggernaut when he was on the Hulk's back. So to answer this lingering question I asked the issues writer Tony Isabella about the fight; "From what I see, the Hulk got stronger and was able to swing Juggy around by his helmet. The helmet came off. I don't think the helmet was mystically attached or anything since the X-Men removed it in their first meeting with Juggy. Without the helmet protecting his head, Juggy sustained some damage when he slammed into the mountain head first. That and the subsequent fall probably knocked him out." So take that answer as you will fanboys. But now onto the issue itself...

With the "Savage" Hulk locked up in a Hulk-Buster cell, the military attempts to use an experimental space-time warp transporter to transport the Hulk into another dimension where he can never do damage to the Earth again. As they turn on the transporter and manage to transport the Hulk away, at the same time it allows the Juggernaut to make his way back to Earth. Soon the Juggernaut starts hitting the walls of the cell the Hulk was in to break out. Then the military tries to use the teleporter again but its feedback causes the Hulk to reappear. The Juggernaut recognizes the Hulk and says they should escape together. The Hulk doesn't trust Juggernaut but decides to help him as they bust out of the cell and defeat the Army. After the Hulk leaps away he sees the Juggernaut cause a family to drive off a road and threaten them. This causes the Hulk to confront Juggernaut and fist start to fly. Both brutes knock each other around until the Juggernaut gets on the Hulk's back and tries to break his neck. The Hulk will rage, get stronger, grab Juggernaut by the helmet and spin him around in the air to throw him back to the Army base. But the helmet becomes loose and the Juggernaut flies into a mountain. The Hulk walks away thinking that the fight is over but Juggernaut recovers from his fall and is about to attack the Hulk again when Professor X, Cyclops and Marvel Girl show up and easily defeat him since his helmet is off. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 1 HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 0

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #402 (1992)

The "Professor" Hulk takes it upon himself to check out why acres upon acres of the rain forest are being leveled. When he gets there he gets ambushed and attacked by a huge man in plain civilian clothes. The Hulk thinks this is just a construction worker and he will keep asking this man who he is while never getting a direct answer. Not wanting to fight back the Hulk gets knocked around until he is eventually knocked unconscious. Juggernaut takes such pleasure in this advantage that the Red Skull has to tell him to stop or he'll kill the brute. RESULT: WIN JUGGERNAUT (This wasn't a definitive "win" by any means as the Hulk questioned who he was fighting and never really fought back. When he realized it was Juggernaut it was already too late.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 2 HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #403 (1993)

With the "Professor" Hulk locked up, he finds out it was the Juggernaut who attacked him in the previous issue. Then he will taunt Juggernaut into trying to fight him without any tricks. Of course, Juggernaut steps up but the Red Skull will stop him. Soon Red Skull uses Mentallo to take control of the Hulk's mind by sending images of his greatest enemies to beat him down mentally. Juggernaut is among the enemies that attack and try to pound on the Hulk. RESULT: NONE

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 3 HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #404 (1993)

As the "Professor" Hulk was being mind-controlled by Mentallo to team with the Juggernaut to battle the Avengers under the pretense that Juggernaut is his father, Juggernaut will compliment the Hulk. Now the Hulk knows that Juggernaut can't be his father because his father would never do that. The Hulk fights the mental control by raging and attacking Juggernaut. The Hulk is now mad enough to pound on Juggernaut (knocking his helmet off in the process) and fight off the mental control. Finally the psychic backlash from the Hulk breaking free of the mind control will knock Juggernaut out as well as all the other Avengers. RESULT: EDGE HULK (While the Hulk clearly had Juggernaut hurt and humbled, it was the psychic backlash that would actually knock him out and not the Hulk's attacks.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 4 HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #457 (1997)

Enhanced by the science of the villain Apocalypse, the "Heroes Return" Hulk has become his super-powered pawn called War! Juggernaut charges and crashes into this Hulk and keeps pushing him backwards. That is until War manages to completely stop him dead in his tracks! Juggernaut cannot believe what just happened and begins to get pummeled. Soon War beats Juggernaut down and will take out his sword to decapitate him. Luckily the Absorbing Man crashes on top of War and saves Juggernauts life. War will then hit Rick Jones by accident and the impact sends him into a brick wall. The Hulk then comes to he senses and rips off his armor and leaps away screaming in shame. RESULT: WIN HULK (even though the Hulk got the "win" in this fight by having the Juggernaut helpless and almost beheading him, he was enhanced by Apocalypse. This cannot be considered a definitive "win" due to this advantage.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 5 HULK: 1 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

DEFENDERS #10 (2001)

The "Savage" Hulk with the Defenders are attacked by villains under the control of Orrgo. Juggernaut is among the many that attack and try to overwhelm the heroes. The battle royal will end when the spell is finally broken and the villains become free of the mind control. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 6 HULK: 1 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

WORLD WAR HULK: X-MEN #2 (2007)

Ever since Cain Marko refused the bidding of Cyttorak he became a depowered Juggernaut. And now with a raging mad "World War" Hulk beating up every X-Men in sight looking for his step-brother Charles Xavier, Cain Marko knows its up to him to try and stop the brute. Marko makes a plea to Cyttorak, to amp his powers back up, ostensibly so he can rescue his step-brother. But as Marko makes an all out attack on the Hulk, he ends up getting dropped into the action still at half-strength. The Hulk will pound on Marko unmercifully and decisively. RESULT: WIN HULK (Although the Hulk totally humbled Juggernaut in this fight, he was not up to full-power.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 7 HULK: 2 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

WORLD WAR HULK: X-MEN #3 (2007)

This issue has some controversy to it and has been debated on by fanboys. Did the Hulk stop Juggernaut's forward movement or was Juggernaut slowly pushing the Hulk back when they were locked up? A panel shows a close up of their feet but it is still hard to judge so I asked writer Christos Gage about it to end this debate once and for all, this is what he told me; Hulk stopped him for a moment...whether he could have stopped him for long, I don't know. More likely the ground would have caved in first, which is why Prof X yelled at him to stop. Hey, I'm not gonna take sides here!" So in conclusion to what Gage said, the Hulk did stop the Juggernaut's forward movement with his physical strength and redirected it's irresistibility in another direction (in this case down) to actually give the Juggernaut pause. So that debate ends with another one beginning...How long can the Hulk stop the Juggernaut for? I guess we'll save that for another time because now lets see the issue...

With the "World War" Hulk continuing to pummel the rest of the X-Men, Marko asks Cyttorak why he let him fight the Hulk at half-power. We learn that Cyttorak wants his avatar back to being vicious, and realizing on some level that's what Marko wants as well. Cain agrees to go back to being the one-true Juggernaut at full-power, armoring back up and charging at the Hulk for a battle of the century! The two behemoths go back and forth until they are in a deadlocked stand off pushing against the other. Soon Professor X comes running out and yells at the two brutes to stop their pushing match because the extreme force they are using is breaking the foundation of the school and it will collapse. The Hulk will take this moment of hesitation and sidestep Juggernaut who topples forward and gets pushed in the back by the Hulk which sends him running wildly into the bottom of a lake. RESULT: EDGE HULK (While this is not a definitive "win" for the Hulk, he gets the "edge" because he did remove Juggernaut from the fight long enough for him to encounter Professor X and set things straight with him. This fight is debated on especially by Hulk fans who consider this a "win" for the Hulk, but IMHO it was just too close to call.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 8 HULK: 2 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #602 (2009)

This is an interesting match up between the Hulk and Juggernaut because this fight has more to do with "Bruce Banner and his son Skaar vs the Juggernaut." But since Bruce Banner is essentially the Hulk in his normal form, this issue counts and makes the list (I know it's confusing so please bear with me).

Bruce is training Skaar to take on the Hulk when he eventually turns into him (Yes, the Hulk's son wants to kill him). So, in preparation Bruce has Skaar take on the Juggernaut to test his skills. But Skaar shows no interest in the fight so Juggernaut attacks Bruce and starts to pound on him. Bruce uses his electronic shield to save his life from Juggernaut's assault. Soon Skaar attacks Juggernaut and they battle it out while Bruce yells out directions on how Skaar must fight him. Eventually Skaar tricks Juggernaut and at the last moment hits him so hard that he flies into space. It ends with Skaar and Bruce in a comic shop looking up Conan to see why the Juggernaut called him that. RESULT: NO CONTEST (Or it should actually say Bruce Banner and Skaar with the "win" because they used teamwork and tricks to defeat Juggernaut. But in truth, this has to be a "no contest" when talking about "Hulk vs Juggernaut" because even though Bruce Banner was involved in this fight, the Hulk wasn't ever present...or was he...who knows.)

FINAL TALLY: MATCH UPS: 9 HULK: 2 - JUGGERNAUT: 1

NON-CONTINUITY BATTLES

The Hulk and Juggernaut have fought a few times in non-cannon stories. I've noticed throughout the years that both Hulk and Juggernaut fans often make arguments showing these comics to make claims to their debates. But truth be told, despite some interesting stories, these issues don't count. I see them as writers interpretations of “Hulk vs Juggernaut” battles without continuity restraints so they always have fun twists of “What could have been.” Listed here are the best of the best of the Hulk and Juggernaut battles that occurred outside of actual Marvel continuity.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #200 (1976)

The "Savage" Hulk (with a special helmet on that gives Bruce Banner's brain control of the Hulk) battles illusions of his greatest foes inside the infected mind of Glenn Talbot. There, an illusion of Juggernaut is among the many foes that attack and get defeated by the raging Hulk (who has long destroyed the helmet) which eventually frees Talbot from the control.

THE INCREDIBLE HULK #314 (1985)

Doc Samson gets word that the "Savage" Hulk has returned from the Crossroads of Time and races to meet him in the New Mexico desert. Samson gets there first and upon the arrival of the Jade Giant, they begin to fight. As the Hulk is creaming the good Doctor, Samson pleads with the inner Banner to "try to take control!!"

The Bruce Banner personality inside the Hulk brings illusions of attacking enemies to the Hulk's mind. First, he is attacked by Juggernaut and then is replaced by MODOK. and then Rhino. As Rhino runs right through the Hulk like a ghost and then the brute realizes that they aren't real. After few more adversaries attack, the Hulk doesn't even bother fighting back.

Now Doc Samson has recovered enough to address the Hulk again. The Hulk thinks that Leonard is a ghost now as well and won't fight him. The Doctor takes advantage of the situation and sucker-punches the Hulk, knocking him out.

DRAKES MINI-COMIC #3 (1993)

In this promotional mini-comic we see a glimpse at how some artist interpret Juggernaut's size (here he is looking about 10 feet tall) which dwarfs the "Professor" Hulk. In the comic, the Hulk teaming with Wolverine and Spider-man can't even hurt the Juggernaut as they all get knocked around. But once Spidey and Wolverine use tactics to remove the Juggernaut's helmet (and despite his plea to surrender), the Hulk will step up and knock him out with a huge haymaker!!

SPIDER-MAN MAGAZINE #7 (1994)

Once again the Juggernaut is drawn to look like a giant (about 10 feet tall) and dwarfs the "Professor" Hulk. In this story, Juggernaut wants to have the solar collector to boost his strength, but it's up to the Hulk and Spider-man to stop him. After a short battle the Hulk will knock Juggernaut out with a huge punch. Eventually Juggernaut wakes up for round two and while the Hulk has to make sure the solar collector doesn't explode, it's up to Spider-man to take him on alone. Spidey tricks Juggernaut into crashing into the solar collector and then knocks it on top of him for the victory.

SAVAGE HULK: ONE-SHOT (1996)

Stories that include some of the Hulk's greatest rouges. In this tale with the "Professor" Hulk standing trial, he gets attacked by just about every enemy he's fought in the past. The Juggernaut is among the villains that attack and brawls with the Hulk.

MARVEL ADVENTURES #14 (1998)

A dying Juggernaut seeks out Dr. Strange for the Cyttorak crystal to bring him back to full-strength. As he takes it from the magician a portal to Cyttorak's dimension opens up and Bruce Banner will tackle Juggernaut through it. When they land Juggernaut powers up and becomes more powerful than ever. Dr. Strange who is now in astral form fights Juggernaut until he weaves a spell to change Banner into the Hulk. Both brutes then have a huge back and forth fight until the Hulk punches Juggernaut near a Cyttorak ruby which he tries to absorb to give him even more power. But Juggernaut will get overloaded with power and explodes and then dissipates to another place.

MARVEL ADVENTURES: THE AVENGERS #7 (2007)

With the Juggernaut looking for a man who double crossed him, he is met up by the Avengers. After Captain America, Spider-man and Iron Man are defeated Juggernaut is now faced with the Avengers strongest member, the Hulk! The two behemoths trade blows with Juggernaut eventually knocking the green brute out (or so it seems). Wolverine would then attack and fair no better. Storm, watching all this tries a different approach and begins to talk the Juggernaut down. It almost works but the Hulk roars back into battle, knocking himself and Juggernaut off the clifftop into the sea below. Soon the Hulk swims to shore asking where the Juggernaut is and he is nowhere to be found.

MARVEL ADVENTURES: THE INCREDIBLE HULK #10 (2008)

Bruce Banner is in South Korea looking for the Amulet of Cyttorak to see if it can stop him from changing into the "Savage" Hulk. He is met by an American guide, who happens to be Cain Marko in civilian clothing. He is willing to show Bruce, Rick Jones and his pet monkey, Yoink the way for a price. Eventually they find the Shrine of Cyttorak and the amulet, which Marko takes for himself! He transforms into the Juggernaut and now wants to destroy the amulet so there won't be anyone to stop him. But before he can, Banner tries to grab it and is easily tossed aside and while Juggernaut is distracted, Jones and his monkey steal the amulet from him. As Juggernaut chases them to retrieve it, Banner changes into the Hulk and the battle begins! Juggernaut's first blow sends the Hulk crashing out of the caverns and when the Hulk gets up and attacks again he cannot stop the Juggernaut's forward movement and is pushed back. Juggernaut will then land another tremendous blow which sends the brute flying off the mountain. Soon Jones and Yoink put the amulet around Juggernaut's neck and it magically binds him helpless. But the Hulk comes attacking again, fueled with rage, he punches the amulet that has Juggernaut trapped, destroying it and freeing him. Juggernaut thanks the Hulk for his luck and they brawl again. While the Hulk punches Juggernaut over and over and has no way of hurting him, Juggernaut will begin to push the Hulk back again. But this time the Hulk picks Juggernaut up and throws him back into the cavern causing a massive avalanche. The Hulk will grab Rick and Yoink and leap away to safety. Next time we see Juggernaut, he is buried alive in the cave trapped but slowly he begins to move.

1985 #2 (2008)

Small Town America, 1985: Toby Goodman is a thirteen year old boy who weathers the storm of his parent's separation, his mother's choice of new boyfriend and his father's indolence by immersing himself in the minutiae of the Marvel comics universe. Toby soon becomes possessed with this world and his humdrum existence takes a turn for the bizarre when he spots a creature that resembles The Red Skull, gazing out from a window of the local nexus of suburban folklore, the abandoned Wyncham house. Before long, more characters from the pages of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's fictional universe begin showing up in the flesh. With Toby now confronting the Hulk with Bruce Banner's mind, the brute asks if he has seen the Juggernaut. Soon the Juggernaut tackles the Hulk from behind and a brawl ensues with Toby watching in awe and then eventually running off.

MEDIA

Listed in this section is every time the Hulk squared off against Juggernaut in a movie, cartoon, video game, etc. Now this category might not be in actual comic continuity but it plays a very important role in how the mainstream audience views each character and where they stand when facing off with one another. It should be noted that it was the media that had more of an impact on the "Hulk vs Juggernaut" mythos than even the comics did.

MARVEL SUPERHEROES VIDEO GAME (1995)

The arcade fighting game released by Capcom that brought the "Hulk vs Juggernaut" rivalry into the public eyes and started a whole mess of controversies and questions especially when talking about their size and strength.

The game is loosely based on the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, with the heroes and villains battling each other for the Infinity Gems. The main antagonist is Thanos, who steals whatever Gems the player had collected (at that point, all but the sixth gem, Mind) and uses them against the player, but with each gem having a strange, new effect when used by Thanos.

The game played similar to Capcom's previous Marvel-licensed fighting game, X-Men: Children of the Atom, but with a more simplified use of the super combo gauge, and the addition of the Infinity Gems. Each Gem could be activated in battle, giving the user a different power for a few seconds. In addition, each character had a Gem that he had a special affinity for, and would get additional abilities whenever he activated it.

Juggernaut is a total powerhouse in this game and when used correctly, rarely will he be defeated. The "Professor" Hulk, who can do some tremendous damage in his own right is a far second choice. Never has "Hulk vs Juggernaut" been so lopsided before.

X-MEN THE ANIMATED SERIES (SEASON: 3 EPISODE 46 THE JUGGERNAUT RETURNS 1995)

While storming the mansion to find his step brother Charles Xavier, Juggernaut is met up with it's defenses. He get's attacked by a Hulk robot that is easily destroyed and defeated. Soon Juggernaut's life is at risk when someone else uncovers the Cyttorak ruby and claims the powers of the Juggernaut and uses it to pick up girls. Eventually Professor X and the X-men help Juggernaut out and stop this rouge-Juggernaut. Due to the X-Men's help, Juggernaut leaves them in peace and walks away.

MARVEL VS CAPCOM: CLASH OF THE SUPERHEROES VIDEO GAME (1998)

This was the third game in the Marvel vs Capcom series. A new twist featured back up characters that would assist your team. While the Hulk is a playable character with improved strength and durability from the previous game, Juggernaut was only an assisting one. And even though he cannot engage the Hulk fully, he can still attack the Hulk while assisting an opposing team with his headcrush maneuver. It was kind of a let down because fans would have perfered to see Juggernaut as a usable character to engage this newly improved Hulk as well as other characters in this game.

The game takes place within the Marvel comic continuity, as Professor Charlies Xavier calls out for heroes to stop him before he merges with the consciousness of Magneto and becomes the being known as Onslaught, the final boss. The game was developed in late 1997 and first released in January 1998 to both the arcade and then to home game systems.

MARVEL VS CAPCOM 2: NEW AGE OF HEROES VIDEO GAME (2000)

This is the fourth overall game in the Marvel vs Capcom series. Now Capcom simplified the controls to make the gameplay more accessible for casual players. The button configuration was trimmed down to 4 main buttons and 2 assist buttons. The game also features a different air-combo system and 3 on 3 tag, compared to the 2 on 2 tag from previous games in the series.

The game was highly anticipated upon its release and achieved criticial acclaim due to its graphics, fast action, storyline and enormous cast. The game scored and 8.8 on ign, a 91.1 on Metacritic, and has frequently been called one of the best fighting games ever by Gametrailers, particularly by the Screwattack staff. The only complaints seemed to be the ability to stack teams as well as the jazz soundtrack, but many reviewers managed to overlook it due to the game's impressive achievements.

The "Professor" Hulk was even more improved in this game than any other previous and seemed to balance out the power levels between him and Juggernaut. Both could take and deliver huge amounts of damage with the Hulk possibly being the favorite now with his quicker movements and more range. But Juggernaut of course, still had the size over him.

SUPERHERO SQUAD CARTOON (SEASON: 1 EPISODE 5 ENTER DORMAMMU 2009)

This episode starts with Hulk and the Superhero Squad fighting it out with Juggernaut and Sabertooth to take back the infinity frackles. Thor and the Hulk make some attacks on Juggernaut but he can take it (to the Hulk's surprise) and tries to escape through the Great Wall where he is ambushed by more heroes. Soon a magical ray shoots into the hole of the wall and some the heroes (except the Hulk) into wacky things. When everything turns back to normal and the heroes and villains (now with Dr. Doom) square of we see it turns out to be Dr. Strange!

SUPERHERO SQUAD VIDEO GAME (2009)

While this game has two options of play; Adventure Mode, where Hulk along with the other members of the Superhero Squad go through various levels defeating waves of enemies and bosses (where Juggernaut is a boss) to eventually fight the final boss Dr. Doom. The other option is Battle Mode, where you pick one character to use in free-for-all fighting action. Players defeat their opponents by depleting their health or knocking them out of the arena! Hulk fighting Juggernaut has never been cuter than this!

SUPERHERO SQUAD CARTOON (SEASON: 2 EPISODE 38 TOO MANY WOLVERINES 2011)

The episode starts off with the Juggernaut rampaging through the city and then the Super hero Squad shows up to stop him. They "Hero Up!" and then attack with the Hulk charging the running Juggernaut to no avail. Juggernaut will continue to pound on the Squad and destroying the city until Firestar shows up and melts the street around his feet holding him there. He grabs a streetlight and swings it at all the heroes until Wolverine is thrown by Reptil in dinosaur form and uses his claws to cut it down to size. Iron Man will then blind Juggernaut with a light ray as The Hulk and Thor beat him down (off screen of course) and then tie him onto a truck flatbed that hauls him off to jail.

SUPERHERO SQUAD ONLINE VIDEO GAME (2011)

This online PC game has a ton of features where Hulk and all the other Marvel heroes can be used to play. Have level games and battle minions until you meet up with the Juggernaut and other villain bosses, team up with other players online, train your heroes and interact with the entire Marvel Universe. Also there is a fun option for fighting each other in a card game style format. This game is in the style of many of the popular card games for kids, where you try to trump the card your opponent plays, or stop them from being able to put one down at all. You’ll begin by building your deck, choosing cards with a high damage potential, or cards that might help you block your opponent’s attack. Your chosen hero will face off in an arena with one opponent. Each turn you have the chance to attack, block an attack, or pass if you have nothing to play. Make your opponent lose all of the cards in his hand to win the game. With each card you play, the character on the card will enter the battle arena and perform an action. It’s really fun to see your favorite characters attacking, blocking, or cheering their victories. When you win a game, you’ll be rewarded with a new card for your deck. Have Hulk go through the levels or fight others in a battle royal of the ages, either way this game is super fun to play!

THE END??

So what's the conclusion between these two powerhouses? Even though the Hulk has the overall edge 2 to 1 in 9 official match ups, it really is a dead even draw. Because despite some controversial wins and loses to each, neither brute can claim a definitive victory over the other. I think it's because they are very similar in styles and almost exactly the same in their physical attributes. They both have the biggest egos, they both talk huge amounts of trash, they both have the same style of fighting (just keep moving forward, brawl and pound your opponents until they become nothing but meat sauce), they both never quit, they both cause trillions of dollars in real estate damage and they both put the fear of god into everybody they face.

But in my opinion, I have to give the Hulk the edge on pure physical strength over Juggernaut (full-power or not) because that's his bread and butter. The Hulk showed his superiority in strength in their first meeting and he has shown that he is quite capable of stopping the Juggernaut's forward movement with his physical power and that speaks volumes because before his encounters with the Hulk, the Juggernaut was always considered unstoppable.

So who has the better durability? Both of these guys can take a ground level nuclear blast and keep on going! The Hulk has increased durability and healing with his near-limitless rage and Juggernaut has the near-limitless magic of Cyttorak to keep him invulnerable. It's so close, but I'll give the edge to Juggernaut because that's his bread and butter. I will admit that both brutes have been shown to be able to hurt the other physically on a consistent basis despite the reputation of their high-end invulnerability. But I have to give it to the Juggernaut because outside of the Hulk, he has been able to use his force-field with awesome results in other appearances. Plus his durability seems to be portrayed much more consistently than the Hulk's (which fluctuates from comic to comic and is related to his current adrenaline levels).

So looking at these facts with unbiased eyes, it's no surprise that this match up is a solid draw. And if fanboys want to get technical and talk about their powered-up versions like "Worldbreaker" Hulk or "8th day" Juggernaut, etc., etc. then please argue among yourselves because I'm outta here!

And for personal reasons I want to point out that finally the Hulk looks like his ol' savage self in the recent Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds (2011) video game that has returned after an almost eleven year layoff. The good part is that the horrid "Professor" Hulk is long gone and the "Savage" Hulk has taken his place! He also is one of the strongest character in the game with some great moves that do crazy damage (nobody but Galactus can beat him hit for hit). The gameplay, graphics and technology has never been better. The downside is that the Juggernaut was not included in this 46 character fighting game. And I got even more upset when they looked passed him again when Capcom released an improved version of this game with twelve more characters later in the year called Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 (2011). I would have been interested to see how big they would have made Juggernaut and how he would match up against the Hulk (or even Thor). What this does show you is that the Juggernaut's fame is not what it used to be like in the 90's despite appearing in the movie X-Men 3: The Last Stand (2006). One more thing that I can't stand about this game and continually get's my blood boiling...the Hulk still sports a silly belt buckle...UUGGHHH!!

Agree? Disagree? Let's hear it fanboys!!

Check out other "DEFINITIVE WRITE UPS" here:

Superman vs Captain Marvel

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/05/superman-vs-captain-marvel.html

Thor vs Ulik

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/07/thor-vs-ulik.html

Hulk vs Thor

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/09/hulk-vs-thor.html

Hulk vs Hercules

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/01/hulk-vs-hercules.html

Hulk vs Sub-Mariner

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/02/hulk-vs-sub-mariner.html

John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central

BATMAN COLORFORMS AND MY DAD

2011-11-19T13:01:00.029-05:00

TALES FROM THE TOY CHEST

Stories of Childhood Triumph and Tragedy

By
John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino

CASE NUMBER: 6730-CC
BATMAN COLORFORMS AND MY DAD

Age: 4 Years

Date: 1977

Place: Osco Drugs

Location: Waltham, Massachusetts

I have always been an individualist and an anomaly as a little kid (hell, I still am today). I had some friends but I usually did things alone and created my own worlds. I liked being in my head rather than in the real world around me because to be honest, I had a BIG imagination. To me, it was much more fun this way. Kids in school always wanted to be doing things the older kids did just to fit in or to be accepted. I never succumbed to peer pressure and no matter how weird or otherworldly I got, I was always pretty popular with everyone. But for the life of me I never had a clue why. Looking back on my childhood today I get a kick out of the stuff I did and got away with. I can't help but wonder why I acted and did the things I did. Was it all the cartoons I watched? Was it all the comics I had? Was it all the toys I played with?

Nope. It was because of my dad.

My dad came to America from Sicily back in the early 1960's with his parents and 6 brothers and sisters. His father was very sick (he died just a year later) and since he was the oldest son (20 years at this time) he had to provide for them. Life was always very tough for my dad because even as a young child in Sicily he had to work long back-breaking hours for little to no money and his family was so poor that they sometimes ate just one meal a day. Now working three jobs in America to provide for his fatherless family must have been excruciating. He even tried to take off from his responsibilities and enlist into the Army to go fight in Vietnam but he got rejected because his mother pleaded to the draft about his financial dependency needed for the well being of his brothers and sisters (that must of sucked). He barely had any schooling but he was a real hard/honest worker who had a gift for using his hands and eventually built a plumbing company from nothing that is highly respected today and has been in business for over 40 years. It's a tale truly worthy of the American dream.

But as great as that was for my dad it wasn't so great for me and my older brother. Living such a tough life made my father a hard man with very little emotional understanding. For him it was work, work, work and nothing more. He was the type of guy who had very little patience (especially for us) and could lash out on the drop of a dime (I could go on to tell some horror stories of some of the beatings I took and how hard I worked as a youth but I don't need to). He provided for us and put food on the table and for that I will forever be grateful but I just wish I could have played with him, got a hug from him or even heard him say he loved me (he never has even to this day). Instead I was scared to death of him and I usually stayed in my room when he was home. My mom was the one who gave me and my brother the love and nurturing we craved but to be honest, I wanted it from him. He barely ever talked to me and when he did it was usually to make me do something.

So staying in my room was the norm for me and to escape I lived in my worlds of wonder. To most people this would seem kind of sad for a kid to do this but I actually had a lot of fun. I had my comics, toys and superheroes that were my real friends and to be honest, I loved them.

One day my father happened to be home early with me as my mother and brother went to the dentist (I think). He made me some food and as usual we both sat there eating without speaking a word to each other. He then told me we had to go to the Osco Drugs up the street so he could pick something up. I can't remember what he wanted but this was the first time I was ever with my father at a store alone, I was always with my mother so it was almost surreal to me. Usually I would just run to the toy isle and my mother would catch up later but this time it was different. I dare not do that with my father as I just followed behind him as fast as my little legs could carry me. Somehow I came to the toy isle end cap and as my father was looking at something nearby I looked up and saw some Batman Colorforms. The box looked awesome and the way the end cap displayed it captured my imagination (I'm such an easy sell). I took it off the shelf to take a closer look. Here was the mighty Batman looking so proud, I could only imagine what fun lurked within this box. I wanted it of course, but I wasn't going to ask my father for it. I was too scared and I don't think he even knew who Batman or a toy was for that matter. But amazingly when he finished what he was doing he asked me if I wanted the Colorforms and I shockingly said yes. Soon enough I followed my father to the cashier line and he bought me my first toy ever!! I was in utter-shock because of this. Sure it was my father's money that was providing all the other toys and such that I got with my mother but never had I gotten something personally with him. And the funny thing is that I don't even remember playing with the Batman Colorforms today because the events that lead to me getting them is what left a forever impression. This was so HUGE in my young mind that I've never forgotten it.

Now this little story is by no means intended on putting my father down, this is actually my way of honoring him. He was a man who has to be respected on so many levels because as time went on I have realized that my father was doing the best that he could with what he knew. He wasn't a bad guy he was just a hard guy because he had such a tough life. He never had the chance to be a kid and understand the magic of youth so I can forgive him for our relationship. I'm thankful for all that he has given me and I will always honor that. Today age and my daughter has made him a lot more calmer, nicer and less serious because he does things with her I would never have imagined (sometimes it brings tears to my eyes) and I'm happy that he's trying in his own way. We talk more and I've grown to understand him more. But to tell you the truth, I still don't think he has any clue who Batman is...

THE END??

As for the Batman Colorforms, I was later shocked to find out that it first came out in 1966 and was later reissued and released in 1976. So despite the greater value of the 1966 set, I'll always think the 1976 set will be the more valuable (at least to me). And just to let you know my father came home from hunting one time a few years later after this story took place and brought home two boxed Mego Spider-man's for me and my brother. That was a great surprise and a fun gift!

Thanks dad.

To be continued...

John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central

THE STEALING OF THE SUPERHERO STAND UPS

2011-11-11T07:05:00.016-05:00

TALES FROM THE TOY CHEST

Stories of Childhood Triumph and Tragedy

John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino

CASE NUMBER: 68891-Q

THE STEALING OF THE SUPERHERO STAND UPS!

Age: 8 years

Date: 1981

Place: MacArthur Elementary School 2nd grade

Location: Waltham, Massachusetts

Okay, I'll admit it, I wasn't the most “normal” kid when I was a wee young lad. I was wild, free, imaginative and a total spaz (kinda like I still am today). But when I was younger I had a lot less control of myself and my desire for anything Superheroes was always in full effect. I'm not kidding, I wanted to literally be The Hulk 24-7. I occasionally wanted to be Thor, Sub-Mariner, Daredevil or Spider-man but it was the Hulk that was at the top of my “who I had to be” list. I would cut up my “Toughskin jeans” and run around the neighborhood shirtless and barefoot and play the Hulk all day long (even during cold weather). When the kids on my street (mostly girls) played “school” or “store”, I would of course be the Hulk and try to fit into their scenarios but eventually Hulk had to SMASH! When I was in kindergarten I can remember the teacher, Mrs. O'Reilly yelling at me saying “John could you be human just for once!” so she could have some peace from my constant Hulk role-playing. I would even go to my friend Frankie's house and we would swim in his huge underground pool and play our made up game called “Underwater Armageddon” and have a Hulk vs Sub-Mariner slugfest! In this game we would jump into the bottom of the deep end of the pool, hold our breath as long as we could and fight it out! First one to go back up for air was the loser. I usually won, especially when I was the Hulk because my ego was always involved! My Hulk obsession got so bad that the kids near my house didn't want to play with me all the time. So I would just run around my neighborhood all day with my proud cut up kiddie jeans and scream at the top of my lungs with all the gamma-spawned power that fueled my scrawny body. Sure this may seem a little extreme to some but no one could argue about all the fun that I had.

The game I played with Frankie called "Underwater Armageddon" was based off this Hulk portfolio image by Steve Fastner and Bill Larsen from 1980. We couldn't help but try to act it out in the deep end of his pool.

Being in school was no different. I daydreamed all day long of superhero battles rather than coming back into reality and learning about addition and subtraction. At this time in my life I walked into my second grade classroom on a Monday morning and I happened to see Robin, Joker, Catwoman and Penguin stand ups stuck to the top of the chalk board. I remembered I played the hell out of these stand ups until they were destroyed about a year ago but to see them in school and all brand new, I was startled! So I asked the teacher what those were for and she said we will be selling our school calenders for the week and each student that sells ten of them will get to choose from one of these stand ups as a prize. There was no Batman stand up in sight so I turned my attention to the Robin one and of course, I wanted him badly! I had only a week to sell ten calenders but I also had to beat out all the other boys in my class because I knew the Robin stand up was the most desirable (I didn't really mind the girls because I knew they would want the Catwoman).

These are all the Batman Stand Ups that was available in this set. Unfortunately the Batman one was missing so I turned my attention to the Robin and total chaos would soon follow.

Once I got home I started harassing my parents and neighbors into buying these calenders. With them being five bucks each, they were no bargain. I could only manage to sell three that day!! ARRGGHH! On Wednesday a kid named Dennis was the first to make the quota and I was terrified that he was going to pick the Robin so I cunningly talked/manipulated him into taking the Joker (man, I'm good). So thankfully the Robin was still up for grabs. I tried to sell off more calenders when I got home, but after three days I only managed to sell a meager five of them. On Thursday a girl named Kristin made the quota and as predicted she picked the Catwoman. I now had only one day to sell five more calenders so I could get that blasted Robin stand up. I ran home at the end of school and went back into selling mode. I traveled a lot further than I was allowed to but in the end I managed to sell exactly five more calenders to get the ten total!! YAAHHOOO!! Tomorrow Robin was going to be all mine!!

When I entered school the next morning I found out another kid named Timmy managed to also sell ten calenders. I was shocked!! I tried to convince him to pick the Penguin but he was undecided so I knew we both may be going into a battle over the Robin. I couldn't take the chance so I took the initiative and went straight up to the teacher before class started and I asked her if I could have the Robin because I sold the calenders. She said I would have to wait until class started so she could announce to them that Timmy and I both had each sold the ten calenders. As “bad” luck would have it, after the announcement she called on Timmy to pick what stand up he wanted first and of course the bastard picked Robin!! I was furious about it and even more furious that I got the lame-ass Penguin!! Who the hell cares about the Penguin?? Certainly not me!! I wish I never talked Dennis into taking the Joker a few days earlier because he would've been a great second choice...UGGHH!!! The events that followed are kind of a blur because when the the teacher awarded me the Penguin stand up I had a case of potty mouth. And before I knew it she took back the Penguin stand up and sent me to the principles office. Man, I'm such an idiot!

Waiting for the principle Mr. Cronin was scary. As a kid during those days, getting into trouble was a big deal. It was almost like waiting for your execution. He was busy in his office dealing with some other unruly kids and I could hear him yelling at them (I remember they were twins and one of them was actually named Thor! I thought that was the coolest thing ever). Jeez, this is going to suck. When he came out he told me to wait in his office and he would return shortly. As I sat there I just stared at his desk and thought of how how many kids might have died in here. Then at that moment I looked down and saw a box filled with a bunch of packages of superhero stand ups. And to my amazement they were packages of Marvel Superhero Stand Ups!! HOLY MOLEY!!! Packages of grandeur filled with Captain America, Spider-man, Thor, Iron man and ...gulp...THE HULK!!! I've never seen so many packages of these in my life! It was almost too much for my young mind to comprehend. Why were they here and more importantly how was I going to get one? I couldn't ask Mr. Cronin, he was about to punish me and I couldn't ask my teacher because she was mad at me too. It was such bad timing but I was not going to be denied. Desperate times calls for desperate measures (and I was so obsessively desperate). I was thinking the unthinkable, I was going to steal at least one of these packages here and now and make off like all the super villains that I loathed. Hey these weren't DC stand ups that were in front of me, they were Marvel ones and Marvel Stand Ups were pieces of heaven in my mind. So I put one pack under my shirt but like every villain, I got greedy and then proceeded to stuff at least five more under my shirt. If I thought I was scared before I must have been terrified now as I waited for Mr. Cronin to return.

When my young eyes saw these packages of Marvel Stand Ups I was in shock. As soon as I noticed the Hulk stand up in it, I knew it was all over for me. I had to have it!

When Mr. Cronin did return he seemed to be in a better mood and I just stood there listening to him trying not to move much so he wouldn't notice all the packages under my shirt. I can't really remember our conversation but I think I made him laugh a little. When he was done we both got up and as he walked me out of his office all the packages of the stand ups fell out of my shirt and onto the floor between us. Just like in a movie and that instantaneously. It was so absolutely horrifying that I wanted to pass out! Mr. Cronin looked at me in total shock! Man, I thought I just escaped the fiery pits of the Apocalypse and now within a few seconds I was right back in them.

Now the rest of this story may be a let down to some of you but for the life of me I cannot remember what happened. Maybe I just blocked it all out because it was so painful, maybe I jumped into a parallel universe and escaped or maybe I did get executed and this is a ghost writing down the memory of it to you. Either way I don't remember. I do remember however that I never did get the Penguin stand up back and a few years later I actually found another box filled with about ten of these Marvel Stand Up packages in it at a toy show and laughed while I bought them (and yes, I did buy them). The great thing is that I still have them today and every time I see those packages in my collection I can't help but think of how crazy I was to try and steal these things out of the principles office.

THE END?

So what can I say to the young peeps out there in dreamland? Never be a villain no matter how super you think it is because you'll either get caught or somehow you'll mess it up. And to be honest, I still play "Underwater Armageddon" in pools when no ones looking...I'm lying, I play even if they are...

To Be Continued...

I have all these items in my collection but I was too lazy to dig them out and take pics of them so a shout out to www.plaidstallions.com for making my life a little easier.

John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central

THE HULK ROLLER SKATES DEBACLE

2011-11-04T07:59:00.006-04:00

TALES FROM THE TOY CHEST

Stories of Childhood Triumph and Tragedy

John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino

CASE NUMBER: 3478-B

THE HULK ROLLER SKATES DEBACLE!!

Age: 6 years
Date: 1979
Store: Osco Drugs
Location: Waltham, Massachusetts.

The Osco Drugs in my town was awesome! It always had great superhero toys and at this time in my life, for some reason, I wanted the Hulk roller skates. I loved how ugly they were and how horrible the commercial was for them. I was so obsessed to get them, at any cost!! And when I'm obsessed, I can't think of anything else!!! I would rather die than live without it (stupid I know, but hey, I'm stupid)!!! First time I saw those roller skates in person I was alone in the toy isle (it's the 70's and nobody watches their kids). I actually took the skates out of the box and took the box to show my mother (who was grocery shopping at Star Market next door) what I wanted. As I was walking outside I got stopped by a man who was an undercover security cop. I told the guy that I was just showing my mother the box so she would come back and buy it for me. The guy actually let me go to find my mother with the empty box. But I never went back to Osco's that day and kept the box (I have no idea why my mom let me get away with it). So for the next few weeks I pretended that I had those skates (because I had the box) and I put my other Hulk toys in it just to make it "official" (in my head anyway).

Eventually, I went back with my mother to the Osco and when we went together to the toy isle. I showed her the skates I wanted and for some reason she wouldn't get them for me. Even to this day, I still don't know why she wouldn't get them for me (maybe she thought I was going to break my neck because you had to spin backwards to stop rolling...yes, you read that right). I started to cry and beg and cry and beg and cry and beg, but she continually said no. She said I had to pick something else and I picked the Hulk Clay Modeling Set from Coloforms, but I wasn't happy about it. I was complaining the whole time while my mother continued to shop. Finally in the checkout line, my mom blew a gasket!! She went nuts on me and said I couldn't get anything!! I started saying, "No mom please!! I want the Hulk Modeling Set, I'm sorry!! Please mom, please!!!" She threw the toy and her other items in a basket near the cashier and stormed out of there holding my hand and pulling me out of the store (can you imagine that scene to the people around us? We had to look like friggin' crazed freaks).

When we finally got home I went to my room and packed up my toys and clothes and told my mom I was running away (I'm s-i-x y-e-a-r-s o-l-d). She didn't say a word, I was shocked that she didn't care. So then I locked myself in my room for a few hours. Later she knocked on the door and told me the Hulk television show was on (with Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno) and I came out and watched it with my mother and brother. Things went back to normal and I never got those Hulk roller skates until 20 years later and they never worked as good as they did on that blasted commercial. And judging from how many times I fell when I spun around to stop, I really would've broke my neck...hey, thanks mom!

THE END?

Just to let a few of you know, I got the Hulk modeling set a year or two later as a birthday gift from some friends up the street. As you can see on the packaging above it say's "Super Easy!" Well it wasn't, it was "Super Hard!" and I gave up on it after about a 100 tries and never played with the damn thing ever again. Years later I got it off EBay and I was tempted to take another crack at it and open it up and put it together, but the package was still sealed so I passed. Eventually I sold it off with a ton of other stuff from my collection but it's still in the back of my head if I can build that stupid Hulk clay modeling set...

Hulk smashed???

To Be Continued...